03-14-2016, 09:54 PM
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#401
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damn onions
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don't worry NBA / NFL refs, last time I checked Wideman couldn't shoot hoops or throw a touchdown, so I think you guys are safe.
Phew. Close one.
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03-15-2016, 12:07 AM
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#402
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Franchise Player
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NFL refs get run over all the time
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03-15-2016, 08:53 AM
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#403
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Deep South
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I don't understand the statements from the NBA and NFL refs. The ruling essentially said that Wideman was concussed and collided with the linesman without an intent to injure. To me this reads as Wideman accidentally ran into the linesman, and he got a 10 game suspension. Players have been accidentally running into officials for a long time with 0 suspensions, so a 10 game suspension is suddenly sending the wrong message to players?
__________________
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03-15-2016, 09:45 AM
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#404
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkajz44
I don't understand the statements from the NBA and NFL refs. The ruling essentially said that Wideman was concussed and collided with the linesman without an intent to injure. To me this reads as Wideman accidentally ran into the linesman, and he got a 10 game suspension. Players have been accidentally running into officials for a long time with 0 suspensions, so a 10 game suspension is suddenly sending the wrong message to players?
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They obviously don't agree with the notion it was accidental or he was concussed.
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03-15-2016, 09:47 AM
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#405
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
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Things that should surprise no one:
- The team supports their player during the process.
- The league defaults to the harsher punishment to appease the officials, but knowing the NHLPA will appeal.
- Bettman upholds the decision of his thrall.
- Officials like the harsher punishment while players hate it.
- Most Flames fans support the player.
- Most non-Flames fans like to see the Flames in a bad light and therefore support the league.
- The media exaggerates the whole thing.
- A neutral arbitrator saw through it all and cut the punishment right down the middle.
Usually is these situations, the right decision is either the one that make everyone happy or everyone upset. The former was obviously not possible.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
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03-15-2016, 11:23 AM
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#406
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Franchise Player
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I'll just add that I also go the impression from Oldham's decision that he would lean closer to 0 than 20. Arbitrators try to avoid taking an extreme position though, as it's bad for business (it's less likely that parties will agree to a 'wildcard' arbitrator).
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03-15-2016, 01:01 PM
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#407
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The new goggles also do nothing.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkajz44
I don't understand the statements from the NBA and NFL refs. The ruling essentially said that Wideman was concussed and collided with the linesman without an intent to injure. To me this reads as Wideman accidentally ran into the linesman, and he got a 10 game suspension. Players have been accidentally running into officials for a long time with 0 suspensions, so a 10 game suspension is suddenly sending the wrong message to players?
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It's not even that, going from 20 to 10 means that they didn't think Wideman had an intent to injure the linesman, but that the contact was still intentional.
__________________
Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
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03-15-2016, 01:25 PM
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#408
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I believe in the Jays.
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The refs are whining about the wrong party.
They should be whining at the NHL instead of the neutral third party arbitrator. Both Campbell/Bettman and Oldham used the rule book as the basis of their determination with the league effectively stating that 40.2 should apply but the arbitrator instead deeming that the violation was more properly covered under 40.3. What they should be agitating against is Rule 40.3 not the arbitrators finding that it applied. The arbitrator doesn't make the rules he merely adjudicates disputes within them.
Don't like the rules refs? Go bitch at the people who make them.
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03-15-2016, 01:25 PM
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#409
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Boca Raton, FL
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LOL, my Oiler fan friend who thinks Wideman is the devil after all this said that Wideman should have gotten MORE than 20 games (not sure how much more, but he said closer to 50). Wow.
__________________
"You know, that's kinda why I came here, to show that I don't suck that much" ~ Devin Cooley, Professional Goaltender
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03-15-2016, 01:33 PM
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#410
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan
LOL, my Oiler fan friend who thinks Wideman is the devil after all this said that Wideman should have gotten MORE than 20 games (not sure how much more, but he said closer to 50). Wow.
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Pretty common sentiment. People just watched the video and assumed intent
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by JobHopper
The thing is, my posts, thoughts and insights may be my opinions but they're also quite factual.
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03-15-2016, 01:34 PM
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#411
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Boca Raton, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saillias
Pretty common sentiment. People just watched the video and assumed intent
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It's just the nuanced analysis that comes from an Oiler fan.
"He score goal. He good. No matter defense."
It's what I've come to expect from them.
__________________
"You know, that's kinda why I came here, to show that I don't suck that much" ~ Devin Cooley, Professional Goaltender
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03-16-2016, 07:24 AM
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#412
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkajz44
I don't understand the statements from the NBA and NFL refs. The ruling essentially said that Wideman was concussed and collided with the linesman without an intent to injure. To me this reads as Wideman accidentally ran into the linesman, and he got a 10 game suspension. Players have been accidentally running into officials for a long time with 0 suspensions, so a 10 game suspension is suddenly sending the wrong message to players?
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It's just a solidarity move, really. The NHLOA doesn't believe it to be accidental, and neither do the other officials unions.
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03-16-2016, 09:09 AM
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#413
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute 14
It's just a solidarity move, really. The NHLOA doesn't believe it to be accidental, and neither do the other officials unions.
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I think these groups are misunderstanding what "intent to injure" means in the context of the arbitration and disciplinary hearings. I think the arbitrator would view "intent to injure" as either a planned attack like the Bertuzzi-Moore incident, or an injury perpetrated by a repeat offender who has a history of apparent deliberate attempts to injure (e.g. slimeballs like Cooke or Torres).
Whether or not one believes Wideman was concussed and wasn't in full control of what he was doing, I don't think anyone would suggest that Wideman planned the attack, nor does he have any history of being a player who goes out of his way to hurt people.
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03-16-2016, 11:33 AM
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#415
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sureLoss
WOW Bettman pretty smug all the time
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fyp
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
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03-16-2016, 11:35 AM
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#416
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Nachodamus.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sureLoss
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I have never wanted to hit someone in the face so badly in my life. I mean with a lead filled baseball bat. What an arrogant C word. And it ain't coconut.
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03-16-2016, 11:59 AM
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#417
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#1 Goaltender
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Such a swarmy little prick.
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03-16-2016, 12:07 PM
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#418
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sureLoss
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I feel that was telling as to the NHLs involvement in delaying the decision so Wideman would have to sit 20 regardless of the suspension being lifted or reduced. The NHL is run like a tee-ball team.
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03-16-2016, 12:11 PM
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#419
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bozek
I think these groups are misunderstanding what "intent to injure" means in the context of the arbitration and disciplinary hearings. I think the arbitrator would view "intent to injure" as either a planned attack like the Bertuzzi-Moore incident, or an injury perpetrated by a repeat offender who has a history of apparent deliberate attempts to injure (e.g. slimeballs like Cooke or Torres).
Whether or not one believes Wideman was concussed and wasn't in full control of what he was doing, I don't think anyone would suggest that Wideman planned the attack, nor does he have any history of being a player who goes out of his way to hurt people.
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Yeah, intent was never proven in this case. Bettman tried to make it sound like there was intent by releasing that text message, but fortunately, the arbitrator isn't stupid and didn't buy it.
I think there is at the very least, reasonable doubt that it was intentional. While the NHL isn't a court of law, it's still a logical principle to use when handing out a punishment.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
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03-16-2016, 12:16 PM
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#420
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Commie Referee
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Small town, B.C.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sureLoss
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If the Flames didn't have a bone to pick with the league with how the whole situation was handled before, now they have proof.
The commissioner of a league like the NHL should be acting like that. Bush league stuff.
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