[News] UPD: City of Glendale to vote on new arena agreement with Coyotes

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by troutman

It is temporary. COG has a return hearing June 29th to try to set it aside.

We only have seen IA's evidence on the clause. COG is hinting they have more ammunition. They may have other common law grounds for voiding the contract (ex. misrepresentation).

If the law on injunctions is the same as here they'll have a hard time. The Coyotes have to show only a "reasonable chance of success" (i.e a fighting shot at showing the lease was improperly terminated), irreparable harm if the lease is terminated (a loss not quantifiable in dollars, such as loss of a season maybe, as well as loss of goodwill, harm to employees and fans) and that the balance of convenience favours the status quo (if you prove irreparable harm you almost always win this part).

[CroFlames]

I don't know why I keep coming back to this thread, it annoys me. Slow news day I guess.

I wonder how many people would continue to support the Flames if the team and city had a tiff, and the Flames sued Calgary for $200 million USD.

Not sure the Flames could make it 'work' in this city even if they had a brand new rink in a prime location. I for one would not support them.

[automaton 3]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

If the law on injunctions is the same as here they'll have a hard time. The Coyotes have to show only a "reasonable chance of success" (i.e a fighting shot at showing the lease was improperly terminated), irreparable harm if the lease is terminated (a loss not quantifiable in dollars, such as loss of a season maybe, as well as loss of goodwill, harm to employees and fans) and that the balance of convenience favours the status quo (if you prove irreparable harm you almost always win this part).

True. But as you know, the City will likely argue that the Coyotes don't come with clean hands, the contract is tainted, the contract violates State Law and it is not in the public interest for it to be allowed to continue, ect ect

Should be interesting.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I don't know why I keep coming back to this thread, it annoys me. Slow news day I guess.

I wonder how many people would continue to support the Flames if the team and city had a tiff, and the Flames sued Calgary for $200 million USD.

Not sure the Flames could make it 'work' in this city even if they had a brand new rink in a prime location. I for one would not support them.

It seems like most of the people who are coming out in support of the Coyotes are not Glendale city taxpayers, so they aren't at risk of losing anything if the Coyotes win the lawsuit.

If you're a taxpayer in Scottsdale who is also a Coyotes fan, you're likely going to back the team in this fight because you don't want the team to leave the area and you have no stake in the well-being of the City of Glendale.


It would be like if the Flames decided to move their new arena to Balzac because the MD of Rockyview offered to pay for it. Then, a few years later, after the Saddledome had been torn down, the MD tried to change the lease agreement with the threat of eviction if the team didn't agree. As a Flames fan who lives in Calgary, I would definitely support the Flames in that fight (although, I'd be mad at them for making a stupid, short-sighted deal in the first place).

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by getbak

It seems like most of the people who are coming out in support of the Coyotes are not Glendale city taxpayers, so they aren't at risk of losing anything if the Coyotes win the lawsuit.

If you're a taxpayer in Scottsdale who is also a Coyotes fan, you're likely going to back the team in this fight because you don't want the team to leave the area and you have no stake in the well-being of the City of Glendale.


It would be like if the Flames decided to move their new arena to Balzac because the MD of Rockyview offered to pay for it. Then, a few years later, after the Saddledome had been torn down, the MD tried to change the lease agreement with the threat of eviction if the team didn't agree. As a Flames fan who lives in Calgary, I would definitely support the Flames in that fight (although, I'd be mad at them for making a stupid, short-sighted deal in the first place).

True, but at the same time a place like Balzac is basically just north Calgary.

I wonder though honestly if 100% of Coyote fans are indeed from Scottsdale and they make the trek out for every game. Surely of the 10-15k fans the Coyotes have, a good chunk are Glendalies?

[Resolute 14]

If the city did what Glendale did, I would be behind the team, easily. City council is replaceable. An NHL team usually is not.

[Hockey Fan #751]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

True, but at the same time a place like Balzac is basically just north Calgary.

I wonder though honestly if 100% of Coyote fans are indeed from Scottsdale and they make the trek out for every game. Surely of the 10-15k fans the Coyotes have, a good chunk are Glendalies?

Glendale is basically just north Phoenix. The arena is about 2 miles north of Phoenix.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751

Glendale is basically just north Phoenix. The arena is about 2 miles north of Phoenix.

I was under the impression Glendale was directly west of Phoenix, not north? Have only been there three times, and not for three years so my memory could be fuzzy.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751

Glendale is basically just north Phoenix. The arena is about 2 miles north of Phoenix.

Uh Glendale is a city of almost 250,000 and Balzac is a hamlet that isn't even incorporated. I wouldn't exactly compare the two.

So yeah I'd say Balzac is basically just a part of north Calgary (or south Airdrie) whereas Glendale, despite the distance from Phoenix, is not just north Phoenix. It is it's own entity.

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751

Glendale is basically just north Phoenix. The arena is about 2 miles north of Phoenix.

While a portion of Phoenix is 2 miles south of Phoenix city limits... it is not basically north Phoenix.. at all.

"North Phoenix" is more on the north side of the 101 near the 51.

But really, who the hell cares? As long as you're in the Ave's - and not the St's you're basically in the butthole of the Valley.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751

Glendale is basically just north Phoenix. The arena is about 2 miles north of Phoenix.

Glendale is an L-shaped monstrosity that is primarily west of Phoenix, but a small portion does extend north of it. The Westgate area is west of Phoenix.

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Uh Glendale is a city of almost 250,000 and Balzac is a hamlet that isn't even incorporated. I wouldn't exactly compare the two.

So yeah I'd say Balzac is basically just a part of north Calgary (or south Airdrie) whereas Glendale, despite the distance from Phoenix, is not just north Phoenix. It is it's own entity.

The two obviously cannot be compared in size, but it does work in terms helping Calgarians visualize where Gila River Arena is relative to the centre of the city.

Scottsdale to the arena is about 54KM around the 101 (Phoenix's version of Stoney Trail) or 39km through city centre - but much slower, obviously. The Calgary equivalent is roughly like driving from Cranston to Balzac. Or, to keep the east-west drive consistent between the two examples, it would be like driving from Chestermere to Bearspaw.

[RedMileDJ]

nm

[troutman]

[GioforPM]

While doing deals with First Nations governments is often a bit dicey (see ring road, Hidden Valley, etc), can anyone say that a deal with Salt River Nation would turn out worse than Glendale City Council?

[greyshep]

Obviously there is a lot of scale that I may be ignoring here, but looking at that map really makes Glendale look like a part of Phoenix. Makes it even more surprising that they cant get adequate support out there.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by greyshep

Obviously there is a lot of scale that I may be ignoring here, but looking at that map really makes Glendale look like a part of Phoenix. Makes it even more surprising that they cant get adequate support out there.

From my understanding, everything that's important in the Phoenix region is in Tempe and Mesa. All the affluent folks are also on that side of the region. Plus it's America, and traffic is always a nightmare everywhere in America.

This is coming from a guy who has never been to Arizona, so I can be way off.

[PeteMoss]

Besides the TV thing I think a big reason the NHL wants these teams in the area is to build up a local market for hockey players. The expected #1 pick next year is from Scottsdale and hockey playing kids in the southern markets is way up (Texas, California, Colorado, Arizona). The thinking being if you can hold out for long enough... you'll eventually build a self sustaining fanbase.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

While doing deals with First Nations governments is often a bit dicey (see ring road, Hidden Valley, etc), can anyone say that a deal with Salt River Nation would turn out worse than Glendale City Council?

A deal with the Salt River Nation is a complete unknown. We are talking about a sovereign nation where law is enforced differently. How this would play out is an unknown. I would think this would greatly affect how the facility is run and more importantly the insurance that is required for all events. Safety services would be greatly impacted. I doubt the Salt River Nation could meet some of these requirements and they would not be open to allowing outside interests to participate in this function as it would affect their perceived autonomy or sovereignty.

Originally Posted by greyshep

Obviously there is a lot of scale that I may be ignoring here, but looking at that map really makes Glendale look like a part of Phoenix. Makes it even more surprising that they cant get adequate support out there.

Phoenix is big,and that map doesn't do it justice. As well, many features that make the metro area difficult to traverse are not shown. Once you start adding the mountains that break up the various municipalities you get a better idea of why getting around can be difficult. To give you some scale, Metro Calgary is 5,107 square kilometers in size. Metro Phoenix is 37,725 kilometers in size. If you drive from the far southeast reaches of the city to the far northwest reaches it can take almost two hours to make the trip. Add in that you have 3.25 million people in the city and it becomes a challenge to get around, even with 10 lane highways in spots.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by New Era

A deal with the Salt River Nation is a complete unknown. We are talking about a sovereign nation where law is enforced differently. How this would play out is an unknown. I would think this would greatly affect how the facility is run and more importantly the insurance that is required for all events. Safety services would be greatly impacted. I doubt the Salt River Nation could meet some of these requirements and they would not be open to allowing outside interests to participate in this function as it would affect their perceived autonomy or sovereignty.

Difficult, but not impossible. I was in on the financing work for the Grey Eagle, which involved the band, the bank, the company set to build and run it, and the feds. Very hard to negotiate through the levels of goevrnment, including local, but it got done and was very successful. I know of several other non-Indian run operations which lease reservation land: Redwood Meadows, the Invermere Airport, etc.

Now, US reservations are more tightly run and closed off as I recall, but there are some larger businesses that operate out of a few of them (mostly casinos and golf courses).

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by _Q_

From my understanding, everything that's important in the Phoenix region is in Tempe and Mesa. All the affluent folks are also on that side of the region. Plus it's America, and traffic is always a nightmare everywhere in America.

This is coming from a guy who has never been to Arizona, so I can be way off.

The richest guys I know who have property around there are in Scottsdale and Paradise Valley FWIW. The guy in Paradise Valley has Muhammad Ali as a neighbor.