I'm honestly not trying to be obtuse, the necessity of what?
Of needing "Ice Girls", rather than a standard custodial crew. Particularly, one that has restrictions on the size, attractiveness, age, and gender of those who qualify for the position.
Fact:
The F&I uniforms exploit the sexuality of the women who perform that job.
Nobody can deny that, and I don't think anybody is, but the notion that it's sexist is still ridiculous to me.
Sexual objectification is not universally regarded as part of sexism, but a lot of people think it is, so let's look at sexual objectification and how that relates to the F&I girls.
Quote:
The objectification of women involves the act of disregarding the personal and intellectual abilities and capabilities of a female; and reducing a woman's worth or role in society to that of an instrument for the sexual pleasure that she can produce in the mind of another
So, let's turn it into questions that we can answer:
Are the personal and intellectual abilities, along with the capabilities of the F&I girls disregarded? NO - the F&I girls are required to clean the ice and interact with the audience at both the games and other events. This requires intellectual and physical ability.
Are the F&I girls only worth that of providing sexual pleasure in the mind of another? NO - the F&I girls have roles that expand beyond being sexually appealing.
You have to ask yourself, if the F&I girls were dressed conservatively and included men, would they A) still be a job that someone had to do and B) still be sexist. If you believe that without the role being filled by beautiful women, the role becomes obsolete (as in, unless the women are beautiful, there is no point to have anyone interact with the audience, clean the ice, or attend community events) then yeah, B is true. If however you're willing to admit that everything the F&I girls do are jobs that need to be done, and could equally be done by anyone not wearing the uniform, then the job isn't sexist.
If A is true, B must be false.
Sexuality being part (even a large part) of a job is not the same as sexual objectification or sexism. If you believe that F&I primary serve to give sexual pleasure in the minds of their audience whenever they are at work, then in that instance sexism would be true, but I would say your judgement on their job is wrong.
The question could be: are their outfits serving a relevant purpose? (Which I think multiple people have asked and in-turn been accused of labelling it sexist). That to me makes a lot more sense. The way they dress if more humorous than sexual to me. It's goofy to see skimpy outfits running around in a chilly arena. I don't think anybody needs to accuse everyone of oppression and being "too PC" for questioning what value the outfits have overall.
Of needing "Ice Girls", rather than a standard custodial crew. Particularly, one that has restrictions on the size, attractiveness, age, and gender of those who qualify for the position.
This is outside of the fact that they only seem to hire white women judging by the pic on the last page, which is bizarre since last census, Calgary was noted to have 1/3rd of its population as a visible minority.
Of needing "Ice Girls", rather than a standard custodial crew. Particularly, one that has restrictions on the size, attractiveness, age, and gender of those who qualify for the position.
Sorry, I thought the picture was of the "promos" crew (i.e. not people who clean the ice but do the handouts in game) and you were questioning the necessity o a promos crew.
I have really no skin in the game on this issue. When I first heard they were getting "ice girls" I was pissed as I thought it was going to be like cheerleaders (without the dancing part) and totally classless and smutty. When their bios (all being former or current hockey/ringette players) and "uniform" came out I had this "everything went better than expected" attitude.
This is outside of the fact that they only seem to hire white women judging by the pic on the last page, which is bizarre since last census, Calgary was noted to have 1/3rd of its population as a visible minority.
wow wow wow
Brown, yellow and red people don't like hockey.
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
No we're questioning the necessity. Do I have to draw a flow chart or what?
Honestly, what's unnecessary about it? Young women skating around and running up an down the stands, dressed like average college students. What's unnecessary or inappropriate about it? What's necessary and appropriate? For them to be dressed in track suits from head to toe and having no make up on? Do we actually want to go down that road as a society where we hate on youth and physical beauty?
Here's another example. Why do I iron my shirt, get my hair cut, shave, make sure my shoes match my belt and are polished, and make sure the colours and patterns of my pants and shirt work togwther? Is it necessary? Not really. Can I sit in front of my computer and do my job without all that? Yes. I do it because my company expects me to project a professional image to both internal and external clients and that's the dress code they deem necessary to meet the organization's goals. Yes and I do enjoy looking good as I assume the Fire and Ice girls do as well.
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This is outside of the fact that they only seem to hire white women judging by the pic on the last page, which is bizarre since last census, Calgary was noted to have 1/3rd of its population as a visible minority.
A girl I went to school with used to be on the crew and she was latina. Probably also has to do with the demographics of the people who watch and play hockey.
This is outside of the fact that they only seem to hire white women judging by the pic on the last page, which is bizarre since last census, Calgary was noted to have 1/3rd of its population as a visible minority.
Oh please, now you're going to try and spin the F and I ice girls as having racist hiring policies?! What? Because out of like 9 women there are no visible minorities? Kind of a small sample size, no? How is that bizarre? How many Canadian NHL players are visible minorities? Do they equal the appropriate percentage or is the NHL racist as well.
Location: Close enough to make a beer run during a TV timeout
Exp:
Quote:
Originally Posted by devel
Anyway, I invite everyone to come down to ice level while the girls bend over at the waist to pick up the pucks. Their ass is pointed right at you. No that little skirt and the tighties underneath do not keep anything covered. Maybe then you will see what I am talking about?
I call BS on that. We had aisle seats in 202 from 2005-2012, so we were right beside the main stairs going up to the 300s. Yes, when the ice crew goes up the stairs I would often give them more than a passing glance. I never saw one who wasn't wearing full on shorts under the skirt. (Meaning I could easily see the legs of the shorts.)
Oh please, now you're going to try and spin the F and I ice girls as having racist hiring policies?! What? Because out of like 9 women there are no visible minorities? Kind of a small sample size, no? How is that bizarre? How many Canadian NHL players are visible minorities? Do they equal the appropriate percentage or is the NHL racist as well.
Well considering the NHL has a more stringent requirement for employment beyond "must be able to skate while smiling" (also under 25, under 120 lbs, female), then obviously not.
Well considering the NHL has a more stringent requirement for employment beyond "must be able to skate while smiling" (also under 25, under 120 lbs, female), then obviously not.
This is outside of the fact that they only seem to hire white women judging by the pic on the last page, which is bizarre since last census, Calgary was noted to have 1/3rd of its population as a visible minority.
One of the primary requirements for the F&I girls is that they can skate really well and the pool of candidates is generally girls who play hockey, ringette or figure skate. If you have ever been to a ringette game you would realize that probably 90% of the girls are white. Hockey and figure skating are likely largely dominated by white girls as well.
I call BS on that. We had aisle seats in 202 from 2005-2012, so we were right beside the main stairs going up to the 300s. Yes, when the ice crew goes up the stairs I would often give them more than a passing glance. I never saw one who wasn't wearing full on shorts under the skirt. (Meaning I could easily see the legs of the shorts.)
Sorry I miss typed. Tighties are the shorts I was talking about and what I should have said is "When they bend over, those outfits leave little to the imagination." I know where your seats were and 200's are not ice level.
Well, this is a thread about the F&I girls not the other stuff that goes on. Pretty sure I mentioned that.
Anyway, I invite everyone to come down to ice level while the girls bend over at the waist to pick up the pucks. Their ass is pointed right at you. No that little skirt and the tighties underneath do not keep anything covered. Maybe then you will see what I am talking about?
So far I think you're the only one that's "sexualized" the F&I girls. What do you propose we do about this heinous position?
Should we dress them like waitresses? How about like women from other popular family affairs such as cirque de solei?
NSFW!
Are disney movies out of the picture as well?
NSFW!
What about Women's field hockey? I imagine it would be an outrage to see these girls bending and sweating all together on the field.
NSFW!
The point of the thread was to discuss whether having girls out there scraping the ice is old fashioned and obsolete.
I think it would be more old fashioned to tell them they either couldn't do it or could only do it if they covered themselves completely up.
They're just wearing the same clothes that they usually wear.
Most places of business have a different set of dress codes that are gender specific.
Compare to other NHL teams, the Flames uniform are fairly far removed from looking promiscuous. It's one of the more conservative uniforms in the league and be a stretch to say it's not "family oriented" or appropriate for a "cooperate environment". There are some above that are clearly more risqué.
The F&I girls aren't just eye candy that happen to clean the ice. They also participate with Flames in-game promotions, fans interaction in the concession hallways, as well charities and public events in the community. Granted it's an unwritten requirement to be an attractive women, and with that being the case, they'll wear feminine clothing; but the girls are an extension of the Flames brand both on and off the ice. So they're more than "spank bank" material. They're help promote and market the Flames PR to the community. Therefore they should be wearing uniforms that are unique to themselves alone aside from other groups that work under the Flames organization. And since their job is heavily based around appearance, as well as a female only occupation, we get the flattering uniforms that they currently use.
The very nature of the job is to draw attention, but the uniforms themselves, plus the roles that the ladies do have both on and off gameday, doesn't express exploitation to me as the original commenter in the Herald said.
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