Flames 2013 Draft Discussion

[Hockey_Ninja]

Originally Posted by Cheerio

I'll bet Florida takes MacKinnon, Colorado takes Jones, and then at 3 we take Drouin

I'd be fine with that.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I will call draft day a success if the Flames don't trade any of their picks away (other than to move up).

I don't want the Flames to trade away any of their firsts for 'prime apex' players or whatever they want to label them. I want the Flames to draft their own picks, develop them and bring them onto the team. I hope they garner more picks for 2014.

Make a 'hockey trade' if you must for players they don't intend on keeping throughout the rebuild, but leave the picks out of those trades.

Try and acquire more picks for 2014.

A good 2 year rebuild if done right can set you right. Flames don't have enough young talent in the pipeline to make this into a one year - not unless Gaudreau and Jankowski are both ready to jump in and be impact players this season! Just try and draft as much elite talent as possible.

You can find elite talent in low 1st round picks. Heck, RoR and Stastny were both 2nd round picks for the same organization! NOBODY is going to trade their future elite players for low 1st round picks. Either move up in the draft, or make good selections with those picks. Don't rush the rebuild.

[Roof-Daddy]

If the Flames keep going the way they're going, and the draft order ends up like this:

Flames
Avalanche
Panthers

...and the Flames have a pretty good idea that the Avs want Jones, and the Panthers want Drouin, I'd like to see the Flames trade down a couple times to snag a couple early 2nds and still grab MacKinnon or Barkov.

Flames trade 1st overall to Avs for 2nd overall and 32nd overall.
Flames trade 2nd overall to Panthers for 3rd overall and 33rd overall.

Then the Flames would have:

3rd overall
15th to 20th overall (if Blues make playoffs)
25th to 30th overall
32nd overall
33rd overall

Five out of the first 33 picks in the draft, and a probable franchise center with the 3rd overall pick.

[Knut]

Remember the new lottery system. No one is going to make a deal until the lottery is set up. Everyone wants this drive to 30, but really as long as they finish 1-4 they will assure themselves a shot at a top Center.

The likelihood of each team gaining the right to the first pick is as follows:

Team 1 25.0%

Team 2 18.8%

Team 3 14.2%

Team 4 10.7%

Team 5 8.1%

Team 6 6.2%

Team 7 4.7%

Team 8 3.6%

Team 9 2.7%

Team 10 2.1%

Team 11 1.5%

Team 12 1.1%

Team 13 0.8%

Team 14 0.5%

No club will move down more than one position as a result of the Draft Lottery. The remaining first round drafting positions are determined by the results of the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Finishing dead last only gives you a 1/4 chance of getting the first pick... so honestly 1 or 2 doesnt matter much as either will leave you in the top 3. Ending up in 5th and getting pushed to 6th would be a bad outcome i think (23.2% chance).

[moon]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

If the Flames keep going the way they're going, and the draft order ends up like this:

Flames
Avalanche
Panthers

...and the Flames have a pretty good idea that the Avs want Jones, and the Panthers want Drouin, I'd like to see the Flames trade down a couple times to snag a couple early 2nds and still grab MacKinnon or Barkov.

Why do they know the Panthers want Drouin?

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Vulcan
Draft picks are overrated, especially just before the draft.

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

The 14th place team in the west that just got hammered 8-2 at home by its provincial rivals while having TWO players it drafted itself in the lineup isn't allowed to make that statement.

I'm not saying draft picks are always overrated. I wouldn't trade away a top pick in this draft but the thing is we have picked up good if not great players for a second round choice. How many second round picks have that success, especially ours?

The other point is that draft picks have a greater value as the draft nears and they become a scarce commodity. It's probably best to pick up draft picks in the summer or early in the season where teams are focused on getting vets for the new season.

Yeah we haven't drafted well and or developed well either and that needs to change but trying to get draft choices by trading away some of our proven vets (like Giordano) is dumb.

Oh yeah, despite what the fired GM on SN says we have three drafted players on the team but yeah we should do better. Part of the problem is with our win now philosophy, Sutter and Feaster have traded away draft picks so it doesn't look good. A change in aims will change that but the real problem is this team isn't good. If it was good there would be few complaints.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

If the Flames keep going the way they're going, and the draft order ends up like this:

Flames
Avalanche
Panthers

...and the Flames have a pretty good idea that the Avs want Jones, and the Panthers want Drouin, I'd like to see the Flames trade down a couple times to snag a couple early 2nds and still grab MacKinnon or Barkov.

Flames trade 1st overall to Avs for 2nd overall and 32nd overall.
Flames trade 2nd overall to Panthers for 3rd overall and 33rd overall.

Then the Flames would have:

3rd overall
15th to 20th overall (if Blues make playoffs)
25th to 30th overall
32nd overall
33rd overall

Five out of the first 33 picks in the draft, and a probable franchise center with the 3rd overall pick.

Banking on Feaster able to bluff that they want Jones though? I mean, they'd obviously consider drafting Jones if they got 1st overall, but if they decided they wanted Mackinnon and offered their first overall to Colorado, Colorado should realize they aren't after Jones. Might be able to pit Florida and Colorado against one another, but if Feaster's capable of grabbing Mackinnon and 2 additional high first rounders by the 3rd selection of the draft I'd be amazed.

And for a bit of a precedent. During the 2002 draft the Panthers, after acquiring the 3rd overall, traded it with the 82nd overall and a future 4th round pick to move up to 2nd overall (unofficially) to draft Bouwmeester, significantly less than a 2nd rounder. And there's probably less of a difference between Mackinnon and Drouin compared to Bouwmeester and Lehtonen/Pitkanen/Whitney.

[Johnny Rotten]

Not sure if mentioned here, but the headline on NHL.com is this:

NHL Scouts Agree--Jones Will be Number one Pick


http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=663741

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I will call draft day a success if the Flames don't trade any of their picks away (other than to move up).

I don't want the Flames to trade away any of their firsts for 'prime apex' players or whatever they want to label them. I want the Flames to draft their own picks, develop them and bring them onto the team. I hope they garner more picks for 2014.

Make a 'hockey trade' if you must for players they don't intend on keeping throughout the rebuild, but leave the picks out of those trades.

Try and acquire more picks for 2014.

A good 2 year rebuild if done right can set you right. Flames don't have enough young talent in the pipeline to make this into a one year - not unless Gaudreau and Jankowski are both ready to jump in and be impact players this season! Just try and draft as much elite talent as possible.

You can find elite talent in low 1st round picks. Heck, RoR and Stastny were both 2nd round picks for the same organization! NOBODY is going to trade their future elite players for low 1st round picks. Either move up in the draft, or make good selections with those picks. Don't rush the rebuild.

Absolutely. And thankfully it seems this is the way it's going. Talk about keeping picks and using them.

[Southside]

Scott Mitchell tweet says conversation with Weisbrod reveals Flames had Galchenyuk at #1 on their list last year.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by moon

Why do they know the Panthers want Drouin?

They likely don't, just saying that IF they did know.

Just spitballing with that idea.

I concede its an unlikely scenario, especially with how even all the top four guys in this draft seem to be.

I could see a scenario like that with the Avs though, given that they likely want to score Jones out of this draft, and it would be nice to snag a second rounder for this draft, especially an early second rounder.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I will call draft day a success if the Flames don't trade any of their picks away (other than to move up).

I don't want the Flames to trade away any of their firsts for 'prime apex' players or whatever they want to label them. I want the Flames to draft their own picks, develop them and bring them onto the team. I hope they garner more picks for 2014.

Make a 'hockey trade' if you must for players they don't intend on keeping throughout the rebuild, but leave the picks out of those trades.

Try and acquire more picks for 2014.

A good 2 year rebuild if done right can set you right. Flames don't have enough young talent in the pipeline to make this into a one year - not unless Gaudreau and Jankowski are both ready to jump in and be impact players this season! Just try and draft as much elite talent as possible.

You can find elite talent in low 1st round picks. Heck, RoR and Stastny were both 2nd round picks for the same organization! NOBODY is going to trade their future elite players for low 1st round picks. Either move up in the draft, or make good selections with those picks. Don't rush the rebuild.

Absolutely agree with this. Trying to acquire another top 5 pick would require massive over-payment. The Flames need assets, they are not in a position to over-pay.

Focus on the draft and make 3 smart picks. Then look to acquire extra picks next year as well with Cammalleri, Stempniak, Stajan and Tanguay.

The only way I could see that it might make sense to trade up in the draft is with the 2nd pick. With Lindholm, Monahan and Nichushkin all in the 5-10 range, it might be possible to acquire one of them with a trade-up if the StL pick is around 15. I would give up the StL and Pit picks to grab one of those 3. Highly unlikely that happens though.

So grab 3 good picks and then keep acquiring more assets

[moon]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

They likely don't, just saying that IF they did.

Okay sorry misread that. Thought you had/heard some inside stuff and that would make me happy Sune I want Mackinnon.

I think you could trade down once but twice likely wouldn't work and is taking too big a risk on missing out on the guy you want.

[drPepper1]

Originally Posted by Cheerio

I'll bet Florida takes MacKinnon, Colorado takes Jones, and then at 3 we take Drouin

After that 8-2 loss we might even end up with the first overall. Either way aslong as we end up top 3 will be good.

[StrykerSteve]

Originally Posted by Johnny Rotten

Not sure if mentioned here, but the headline on NHL.com is this:

NHL Scouts Agree--Jones Will be Number one Pick


http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=663741

Why do they have Calgary drafting 6th?

edit - nvm

The draft order in place for this exercise was based on inverse order of League standings on March 13, and because of travel and time constraints, does not include the conditional first-round pick the Calgary Flames acquired from the St. Louis Blues in the Jay Bouwmeester deal Monday.

Kind of pointless, then.

[Enoch Root]

re MacKinnon and Drouin and the BPA argument...

The simple fact of the matter is that determining BPA is not an exact science. These two are too close to call now which one is going to be better.

So to ignore team needs is silly. The fact is that the Flames have Baertschi and Gaudreau at LW already. Is Drouin better than them? Absolutely (well in terms of potential and likelihood). But is the team that much better overall? Hard to say how much.

On the other hand, the Flames only have Backlund (who is a 2/3 C) and Jankowski, who is still a ways away and is still a risk. Adding MacKinnon absolutely improves the team substantially, in the position that is most difficult to acquire.

As anothor poster said, no one is trading franchise Cs. Other positions are easier to improve by other means.

If MacKinnon is available, you have to take him. If not, you take next BPA and then find a way to acquire one of the other quality Cs with the 2nd pick.

[IamNotKenKing]

I'm simply too lazy to look it up, but when has a 7-14 team won the lottery?

[timbit]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

I'm simply too lazy to look it up, but when has a 7-14 team won the lottery?

They have never had the opportunity until this season, I believe.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

I'm simply too lazy to look it up, but when has a 7-14 team won the lottery?

The Devils 2 years ago to pick Larsson.

[calgARI]

Originally Posted by timbit

They have never had the opportunity until this season, I believe.

I thought they could win the lottery and move up but just had no chance at picking first overall.