Alberta Politics Thread

[Flash Walken]

More dispatches from Captain Crunch's fantasy land.

Prentice Raised taxes before the NDP took power.

In his April budget – which would serve as the basis of his campaign platform – Prentice said he would get rid of Alberta’s 10 per cent flat tax rate and replace it with a progressive tax system. Starting January 1, Albertans earning more than $250,000 would have faced a personal tax rate of 11 per cent — jumping to 12 per cent over two years.

Meanwhile, fuel, liquor and cigarette tax increases were put in place immediately in April — with gas taxes jumping four cents to 13 cents/litre. Alberta’s fuel tax hadn’t been raised since 1991.

The Progressive Conservatives also hiked a number of government service fees — including a 35 per cent hike on traffic fines. Prentice’s budget also included several new processing fees, primarily around the filing of court documents.

Nor did the prime minister mention the fact Notley’s NDP government opted against several of the Tories proposed taxes — including a reversal of the Conservatives’ new health care premium plan. Under Prentice’s plan, Albertans earning more than $50,000 would have faced increases ranging from $200 to $1,000 per year depending on income.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Why can't the government do less in terms of services and involvement in the economy? We all talk about how Albertan's want gold plated services without paying for them. Why can't we talk about what the populace really wants/needs from the government?

Because the people of Alberta won't vote for it.

For an example, see the latest election where a political dynasty was flushed down the toilet.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Because the people of Alberta won't vote for it.

For an example, see the latest election where a political dynasty was flushed down the toilet.

I think the last election was more about flushing a political dynasty down the toilet than it was about the role of government, taxation levels, service levels, etc. This next one could be about exactly that, and in that vain I think a greater discussion needs to happen on that front instead of just making a blanket assumption that Albertans refuse to look at the services/ role of government side of the equation.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

More dispatches from Captain Crunch's fantasy land.

Prentice Raised taxes before the NDP took power.

I'll say it once, I'll say it again:

PCs lost because of the near-punitive health care premium that they were going to bring in.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Regorium

Prentice gave us a budget that was workable, addressed both the revenue and spending side. But noone likes seeing their taxes raised.

He also gave us the "look in the mirror" talk. Which is 1000% true, and people HATED it.

That's not why he lost, he inherited a party that was rife with entitlement, arrogance and corruption. People voted to "kick the bums out".

Originally Posted by Shazam

I'll say it once, I'll say it again:

PCs lost because of the near-punitive health care premium that they were going to bring in.

That's not why I voted against them and I don't remember anyone else saying that either.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

I think the last election was more about flushing a political dynasty down the toilet than it was about the role of government, taxation levels, service levels, etc. This next one could be about exactly that, and in that vain I think a greater discussion needs to happen on that front instead of just making a blanket assumption that Albertans refuse to look at the services/ role of government side of the equation.

For you and me who are politically engaged, sure.

For the masses of Albertans, many of whom are dealing with their own economic problems, probably not.

Albertans are not going to accept lesser public services than the rest of Canada for the second time in 30 years so Doc Siemen can save money on his taxes.

The biggest problem the PCs have towards regaining power is their own legacy, which is where Prentice failed so miserably.

Albertans voted for corporate tax increases over healthcare premiums and status quo corporate tax rates.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Jacks

That's not why he lost, he inherited a party that was rife with entitlement, arrogance and corruption. People voted to "kick the bums out".


That's not why I voted against them and I don't remember anyone else saying that either.

Well hey that's great, I don't know anybody that voted NDP either and yet here we are.

Alberta voters keep voting politicians that promise lower taxes. See: Nenshi, NDP, federal PCs.

Of course it almost never turns out that way.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Taxes in Alberta have to go up, full stop.

If people aren't willing to accept income tax increases that most Albertans won't be burdened by, the Province will have to increase revenue in other ways, including inneficient corporate taxes.

you can't have your cake and eat it too, no matter how often the Alberta voter tries.

Which taxes?

Personal Taxes have gone up.

Corporate Taxes have gone up.

Property Taxes have gone up.

They invented a new tax with the Carbon Tax.

So your dream has come true, every conceivable tax has been increased and even a new one created. Where are the miracles? We're still running a $10B deficit and our services still suck.

Eventually people have to realize that just jacking the hell out of taxes isnt a solution.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Locke

Which taxes?

Personal Taxes have gone up.

Corporate Taxes have gone up.

Property Taxes have gone up.

They invented a new tax with the Carbon Tax.

So your dream has come true, every conceivable tax has been increased and even a new one created. Where are the miracles? We're still running a $10B deficit and our services still suck.

Eventually people have to realize that just jacking the hell out of taxes isnt a solution.

Personal income taxes need to go up significantly in a progressive way.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Jacks

That's not why he lost, he inherited a party that was rife with entitlement, arrogance and corruption. People voted to "kick the bums out".


That's not why I voted against them and I don't remember anyone else saying that either.

Sure, he inherited that party, then showed voters he was more of the same with his backroom Wildrose deal. He wanted to decimate what he saw as the only competition shortly before holding an election. It was cynical politics at its worst. It was short cited to the extreme, and he had his leg kicked out from him by the only remaining alternative, that no one even considered a threat in the NDP. Make no mistake, if he hadn't done that deal, no way would the NDP be in power.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Personal income taxes need to go up significantly in a progressive way.

Then you need someone who isnt an idiot pulling those strings.

And significantly? If you earn over $200K you're paying 48%.

Is the Government Negan? Because they're extorting people for half their ####!

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Personal income taxes need to go up significantly in a progressive way.

And that would cover the deficit? Not even close. Unless you're okay with 90% rates on the top earners.

The Alberta gov't already generates a ton of revenue from income tax, because we're fat and sassy.

But hey I'll throw you a bone: Alberta has the most favourable dividend tax rates in Canada by a fair margin.

#### I'm drawing out virtually everything this year as dividends. My T4 will make me look poor so I get the Child credit back big time, and I get another break because the NDP lowered the small business income tax rate.

[Senator Clay Davis]

The WR deal hurt, but so did the healthcare premiums. It was also pretty much tied between the WR and NDP before the debate, and Notley performed strongly, Prentice was weak, and Jean wasn't going to raise my taxes. I just can't believe it was Calgary that gave the NDP the majority, would have thought people would swallow their pride and go PC one more go round, but obviously not.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

More dispatches from Captain Crunch's fantasy land.

Prentice Raised taxes before the NDP took power.

You know something, I like you Flash, but you are coming across as a bit of a jerk.

Yes we know that Prentice changed the tax structure, thanks for pointing out something we knew already.

In multiple places I've said that some tax increases are ok but only in conjunction with cuts to spending.

But in your fantasy land you only hear what you want to hear.

But currently we've already seen increases in personal income tax and a move to a progressive system

A increase in property taxes

A increase in corporate taxes

An increase in sin taxes at a provincial level

A brand new consumption tax

Yet no significant spending cuts.

In your fantasy world that's ok, tax payers are limitless batteries to support an incredibly bloated government and inefficient government that's solution to everything is to dig down.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Personal income taxes need to go up significantly in a progressive way.

'Tax the Rich!'

Where have I heard this before?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Why can't the government do less in terms of services and involvement in the economy? We all talk about how Albertans want gold plated services without paying higher taxes for them. The end of that discussion seems to always result in left leaning types insisting that taxes must go up and that the business of government cannot be questioned. Why can't we talk about what the populace really wants/needs from the government?

The PCs changed because Alberta changed. Redford won the PC leadership - and the PCs won a majority - with campaign promises to build 50 new schools and increase hospital beds. Basically, the key Alberta voter is no longer a guy who grew up on a farm and now works for an oil services company. It's an urban soccer mom who is stressed about no schools for her kids in her community and access to health care for her ageing parents.

The PCs could keep both soccer moms and the low taxes crowd happy while energy royalties gushed into provincial coffers. Now everyone is going to have to make compromises if we hope to close the huge budget deficit.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Locke

'Tax the Rich!'

Where have I heard this before?

I'm not sure, in the rest of Canada?

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The PCs changed because Alberta changed. Redford won the PC leadership - and the PCs won a majority - with campaign promises to build 50 new schools and increase hospital beds. Basically, the key Alberta voter is no longer a guy who grew up on a farm and now works for an oil services company. It's an urban soccer mom who is stressed about no schools for her kids in her community and access to health care for her ageing parents.

The PCs could keep both soccer moms and the low taxes crowd happy while energy royalties gushed into provincial coffers. Now everyone is going to have to make compromises if we hope to close the huge budget deficit.

Lets see services and the public sector see those 'compromises' now.

[GP_Matt]

You can put me in the camp who voted NDP because I was sick of the corruption stories coming out of the PCs.

They were not doing a terrible job in my mind but ad been around for so long that they needed to be removed.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Lets see services and the public sector see those 'compromises' now.

They are. Spending increases are being restricted to under 2%. Employees are having everything cutback from office supplies to water and coffee. Firing people is more harmful to the economy then anything else. Our whole system runs on consumers, they are the only job creators in capitalism.

Putting these people out of work will just increase unemployment, decrease GDP, increase expenditures on EI and social services. I get having to take on some debt to keep the lights on sucks, but someone has to explain to me how firing people does any good for the economy?

It's not going to lower taxes so it's not like it will increase other people spending. It won't increase investment as there are less consumers for goods. What are the positives?

Keeping the public service stable and growing at inflation makes sense to me.