2016 NHL Draft

[JJ1532]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Handedness aside, if you guys could draft:

Jakub Voracek
Keith Yandle
Chris Kunitz (prime)
Tyler Johnson
Andrei Markov (prime)
Ryan Kesler
Marc-Eduoard Vlasic
Travis Hamonic
Ondrej Palat
Mike Richards (prime)
Alexander Edler

Who would be your preference and in what order?

I'm confused by your list. How did you arrive at these names?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by JJ1532

I'm confused by your list. How did you arrive at these names?

Something between a style comparision and my personal feeling of realistic projection. I also added TJ Oshie to the list.

Originally Posted by Erratik

I won't do the whole list, but I would probably go Markov first. Living in Montreal, I have watched him his whole career and he was a legit #1 defenseman before the injuries.

I agree with this.

[Roof-Daddy]

I'm guessing those are all comparables to the 2016 draftees that are in the Flames range.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Handedness aside, if you guys could draft:

Jakub Voracek
Keith Yandle
Chris Kunitz (prime)
Tyler Johnson
Andrei Markov (prime)
Ryan Kesler
Marc-Eduoard Vlasic
Travis Hamonic
Ondrej Palat
Mike Richards (prime)
Alexander Edler
TJ Oshie

Who would be your preference and in what order?

I will PM you the results.

1. Vlasic
2. Hamonic
3. Markov
4. Edler
5. Kesler
6. Richards (prime)
7. Johnson
8. Yandle
9. Oshie
10. Palat
11. Voracek
12. Kunitz

Top 3 D > elite 2nd line centres > Specialist D > Wingers

[Caged Great]

Boris Katchouk, a player expected to be a late 1st/early 2nd rounder, sounds like a cheap knockoff version of Tkachuk

[druetetective]

The thing with Brown is if he isn't using his size or playing aggressive now, that likely will never be a huge part of his game.

The guy is an enigma, he constantly leaves you wanting more or asking "what if".

He likely is a better Joe Colbrne as others have pointed out, just a much better playmaker. I mean there is a chance everything goes perfect and he turns into a 80 point #1 center but I wouldn't bank on it.

I'd prefer we took a player with a higher floor even if his ceiling is a bit lower personally.

[druetetective]

I still like Max Jones a lot. I wonder if there is a way to move back and get two picks between 11-20. I'd be open to using some of our 2nds or3rd to make it work.


Max Jones, plus one of Jost, Keller, Gauthier, Mcleoud, Fabbro or Mcavoy beats out one of Nylander, 'Big 3 D", Brown IMO. Even if you add a low 2nd to the guy Nylander/Brown package I'd still prefer 2 picks in the 11-20 range.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Boris Katchouk, a player expected to be a late 1st/early 2nd rounder, sounds like a cheap knockoff version of Tkachuk

I like his write-up in the THN Draft issue. He is one of the more outstanding names for me after the usual top 20. Would like to see him in the 2nd round.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

1. Vlasic
2. Hamonic
3. Markov
4. Edler
5. Kesler
6. Richards (prime)
7. Johnson
8. Yandle
9. Oshie
10. Palat
11. Voracek
12. Kunitz

Top 3 D > elite 2nd line centres > Specialist D > Wingers

I like your list, but I think I might move Markov to the top and perhaps Edler down a spot or two - I don't think he was that good for that long... but I may be misremembering.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

I like your list, but I think I might move Markov to the top and perhaps Edler down a spot or two - I don't think he was that good for that long... but I may be misremembering.

That's fair. I think Markov gets a touch overrated from playing in a big Canadian market. He played top pairing but I think would've ideally been a great #3 on a contender playing top unit powerplay but getting more sheltered defensive match ups. Vlasic meanwhile I think is underrated as is Hamonic, I think both are pretty mobile elite two-way dmen who can play top pairing minutes and log top PK minutes. It's really hard to find those guys and they play such a vital role. Edler was really good in his good years, definitely a solid top 3 dman, he could log top pairing minutes and play in all situations. His play has been up and down though, not sure if we're supposed to punish players for their inconsistency or not.

Definitely a tough question! And it sure reveals a lot about your player biases and philosophy on hockey players, their value and how important and rare they might be. I will freely admit my bias towards defenders being very valuable and wingers being the least valuable position.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

That's fair. I think Markov gets a touch overrated from playing in a big Canadian market. He played top pairing but I think would've ideally been a great #3 on a contender playing top unit powerplay but getting more sheltered defensive match ups.

You're selling him short here. He was basically from ~2006-09 what Giordano has been for us the last three years or so. Markov (before injuries slowed him down) finished sixth in Norris voting two years straight, he finished second in scoring on his team in '09, and he did it all while soaking up the difficult matchups so Hamrlik and co could be sheltered. Maybe he was never the best Dman in the league, but he was definitely a defensively reliable top pairing D who was elite offensively. That's a #1D on most teams not blessed with a Drew Doughty - not a #3.

Edler was really good in his good years, definitely a solid top 3 dman, he could log top pairing minutes and play in all situations. His play has been up and down though, not sure if we're supposed to punish players for their inconsistency or not.

Edler isn't really inconsistent. His numbers have fluctuated based on his team's offensive style. But no, don't punish players for year-to-year (in)consistency.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I see it similar to 2013 as well. Barkov is a going to be a top tier #1 centre and Drouin is showing some serious star/superstar potential this year. Wouldn't surprise me if Ristolainen was a Norris nominee/winner at some point, he has massive ability and is one of the better young dmen in the game. Monahan looks like a star. Wouldn't surprise me if a guy like Lindholm turned out pretty star like as well. Nurse still has top pairing potential IMO. Jones looks like sure fire top pairing dman with star upside. Wouldn't rule him out of competing for a Norris later in his career. Domi is showing some star potential IMO.

2013 is a disappointment to you? weird. Some fantastic young players have come from that draft. Definitely a lot of future stars in there. Too early to say there was no top 15 players, can't judge most drafts properly until 5-7 years after. Barkov, MacKinnon, Drouin and Monahan could all be top 15 scorers at some point in their career. There's not many young dmen in the game I'd take over Ristolainen and Jones.

Again, the hype. When do these players actually step up and prove they are as good as you suggest? Monahan is the best of that draft and has proven it in spades. Not only has he stepped up and become an important core player for his team, he has actually done it in multiple years. Drouin has displayed super star potential, with that whopping 8 goals in 35 games played? If he was a super star I would expect a lot more production than that. Simply stated, super stars do not spend the majority of their season in the minors, or pouting at home. And Nurse, a top defenseman? He plays like a number six, at absolute best. When does he show that he has the skill or instincts to be a top pairing defenseman? He plays like a border line player on a team full of minor league level talent. Of the 2013 draft the best blueliner appears to be Ristolainen, but he has massive mountain to climb in the Norris voting. There's a lot of projection in you post, but the players are short on proving capable of playing to level outlined. Again, hype but they aren't backing it up. Good players, possibly even star players, but not the top end super star talents you've suggested. When you frame these players with the expectations you have laid out, then yes, that draft is a bust.

[Crumpy-Gunt]

IF we trade down.. for someone like Brown or even a D-man we're high on, I have a feeling we could do business with Arizona. Especially if Tkachuk is available where we pick. Tkachuk was born in Scottsdale, like Matthews. He would fit very well with Domi Duclair, OEL and Strome. We need a goalie. They have Mike Smith (I know, we'd all prefer Fleury or Reimer) AND Treliving obviously was with the Coyotes.

The problem is that Smith has a terrible contract and his cap hit goes up to something like 6.5 next season. He also hasnt been playing his best hockey in the last little while. IF they are willing to hold some of that salary and give up a secondary pick..I can see us doing business with them. It could make a lot of sense if we rate a player who we like more than Tkachuk being available at 7. They probably want to move Smith, seeing how close they are to the cap and the financial situation the Coyotes are in.

It could be a win win - they get their hometown kid, we move down and get a player we rate higher than him, pick up a half decent goalie, and take Brown/Nylander/Sergachev/who ever we like at 7.

The only doubt I have is concerning Smith. His recent play and his contract arent very enticing.

Something like Smith (retained salary), 1st round pick swap, meh prospect and a 2nd or 3rd (from ARZ). Arizona gets their consolation hometown kid in Tkachuk, we take our guy, or even trade down further. Some may think its an overpayment on the Coyotes part to move up one pick..but considering their hometown kid is lighting up the memorial cup and getting lots of press - if we can trick them into thinking we are ready to take him - they could be tempted to overpay a bit.

Although I'm high on Nylander, I see the players after 5-6 interchangable depending on a teams scouts and their organizational needs (some teams factor that in to BPA). It could work out really well for us. There are a lot of players I like in the 16-35 range and maybe we use the acquired picks and other assets after we snag someone at 7-10 and also move up and get another pick in the mid-late first to take someone who fell but our scouts are high on.

The big ifs for me are Smith and who our scouts like. Maybe they have their eyes on 2-3 players between 7-30, rather than just one top 6 guy.

[activeStick]

What's everyone's thoughts on Cliff Pu? Sounds like an interesting prospect

[Trailer Fire]

He's got a pretty crappy name. If we draft Pu we have to draft Outhouse.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Tkachuk may have been born in Scottsdale, but I think he grew up in St. Louis. Not sure he has any affiliation to Arizona at all.

[Crumpy-Gunt]

Originally Posted by activeStick

What's everyone's thoughts on Cliff Pu? Sounds like an interesting prospect

Saw him play a couple times including the other day. Max Jones and Pu really stood out to me as secondary players (middle 6) on the Knights. I would be kind of dissapointed with Pu, depending where we took him. he seems like a smart player. He reminds me of Drew Shore. A smart player with a few good tools, but doesnt have an identity. Got into some good positions, made some good passes but seemed to lack an offensive edge. Maybe its the team he plays on, maybe he doesnt have that killer instinct.

If we go for anyone on the knights who could be projected as a late 1st or early 2nd rounder..it HAS to be Jones. I cant stop thinking of Ferland when I see him play. Mind you ferland put up more points in the WHL - I see nothing but awesomeness when I watch Jones. He's very quick, 6'0 200lbs. Nice hands, hits very hard, plays with an edge, good shot, dominates along the boards. I can see him putting on some weight and playing a similar game in the NHL tbh. Bennett centering Jones and Ferland would be scary. I know I've been a bit of a downer on Tkachuk but I think he would also be AMAZING on a line with Bennett. They are both terriers who put in a lot of work. Just dont think Tkachuk has the individual skill and skating that Sam has. Well the skating he definitely doesnt have. But maybe he has more raw talent and skill than what I've seen from him.

If we want to get big and skilled this draft and foret about BPA. I say make some trades...get Sergachev, Brown and Jones. All big NHL bodies with no real glaring holes in their game asides from maybe Brown's lack of urgency or physicality.

To answer your question. From what I've seen Pu is decent. Would be interesting to see how he fares on a team where he can get top minutes and better opportunities. I think he has more to offer offensively but hes on one of the most dominant offensive teams I've ever seen in the OHL so maybe the coaches have forced him into a secondary 2way role. And yes - the commentators were pronouncing his name 'Poo'

[activeStick]

Yah Pu seems like a guy who thinks the game well with high IQ and good hands. Lots of questions on his potential given he plays behind Marner and the top line. From what I understand he doesn't look out of place on the top PP unit as he sees some time there since Marner plays the point

[Enoch Root]

So you like Pu on the PP?

[Caged Great]

There will likely be better options with the late 2nds than Pu, whether that's a goalie or something else is yet to be seen.

Might be viable for the 3rd though, but even then, there are likely going to be better potential prospects.