2018/2019 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You didn't read the second part.

Sorry - I read it as he can't fix on a single style solution for all of them, not that he can't seem to find an individual solution for each problem. (damn English on the internet!)

I am not sure if bad glove hand, bad lateral movement, bad choices can be coached out of a player. I do think that a recent/former NHL goalie could offer tips, ideas, anecdotes that a current player would respect and learn from to mitigate the issues.

[AltaGuy]

In bold are the seasons where Sigalet coached the goalies below with the Flames. The sample sizes vary widely, of course, and the evidence is far from clear based on these numbers.

I think the main point to be taken from these numbers is that no goalie has had a great season under Sigalet - something approaching a career-best, or even close. No goalie has had even a surprisingly good season numbers-wise. Most goalies seem to regress based on the numbers after a year of Sigalet's coaching - of course, this is highly debatable as well given team defence and other metrics.

It also seems as if most of these goalies get no better after leaving. Up for debate if he broke them, or whether they were never very good anyway or ready for a steep decline.

Sigalet joined the Flames in August of 2014. Before that he was with the Heat, but I'll start there anyway:

Hiller:
2013 (ANA) - .913, 2.36
2014 (CGY) - .911, 2.48
2015 (CGY) - .918, 2.36
2016 (CGY) - .879, 3.51

Ramo:
2014 (CGY) - .911, 2.65
2015 (CGY) - .912, 2.60
2016 (CGY) - .909, 2.63

Ortio:
2014 (CGY) - .891, 2.52
2015 (CGY) - .908, 2.52
2016 (CGY) - .902, 2.76

Elliot:
2015 (STL) - .917, 2.26
2016 (STL) - .930, 2.30
2017 (CGY) - .910, 2.55

Johnson:
2015 (BUF) - .920, 2.36
2016 (CGY) - .910, 2.59

Smith:
2016 (ARI) - .916, 2.64
2017 (ARI) - .914, 2.92
2018 (CGY) - .916, 2.65
2019 (CGY) - .869, 3.91

[Split98]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

At the trade deadline a guy like him would go for a first round pick++ easily.

You want him for the rest of the year, it will cost you more.

Ottawa has no motivation to move him for a low return simply to help the Flames round out their top 6.

I don't think Duchene is re-signing in Ottawa, so Ottawa definitely has motivation to move him for any return - unless you think they're playoff bound.

I think he's going to be moved by the deadline, so we'll see what he's worth this year I'm sure. I also don't disagree that he's the type of guy that garners the overpayments, but I think he'd have to have a career year at this point for that to not be a massive overpayment. You're basically reliving the Tatar trade here.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I wonder if Ottawa would trade us duchene.

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm
Tkachuk-Duchene-Bennett would be a nasty top 6

Everything Duchene has said media wise has been how much he misses Colorado and once an Av always an Av. Sounds to me like he intends to go back to Colorado so I would seriously pass on giving up assets to rent him.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

In bold are the seasons where Sigalet coached the goalies below with the Flames. The sample sizes vary widely, of course, and the evidence is far from clear based on these numbers.

...

Sigalet joined the Flames in August of 2014. Before that he was with the Heat, but I'll start there anyway:

I think he was coach for both the Heat and the Flames at some point, so what he did with the kids is relevant (maybe moreso than NHL goalies who may be "coach-proof" by the time he gets them).

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

In bold are the seasons where Sigalet coached the goalies below with the Flames. The sample sizes vary widely, of course, and the evidence is far from clear based on these numbers.



I think the main point to be taken from these numbers is that no goalie has had a great season under Sigalet - something approaching a career-best, or even close. No goalie has had even a surprisingly good season numbers-wise. Most goalies seem to regress based on the numbers after a year of Sigalet's coaching - of course, this is highly debatable as well given team defence and other metrics.



It also seems as if most of these goalies get no better after leaving. Up for debate if he broke them, or whether they were never very good anyway or ready for a steep decline.



Sigalet joined the Flames in August of 2014. Before that he was with the Heat, but I'll start there anyway:



Hiller:

2013 (ANA) - .913, 2.36

2014 (CGY) - .911, 2.48

2015 (CGY) - .918, 2.36

2016 (CGY) - .879, 3.51



Ramo:

2014 (CGY) - .911, 2.65

2015 (CGY) - .912, 2.60

2016 (CGY) - .909, 2.63



Ortio:

2014 (CGY) - .891, 2.52

2015 (CGY) - .908, 2.52

2016 (CGY) - .902, 2.76



Elliot:

2015 (STL) - .917, 2.26

2016 (STL) - .930, 2.30

2017 (CGY) - .910, 2.55



Johnson:

2015 (BUF) - .920, 2.36

2016 (CGY) - .910, 2.59



Smith:

2016 (ARI) - .916, 2.64

2017 (ARI) - .914, 2.92

2018 (CGY) - .916, 2.65

2019 (CGY) - .869, 3.91

How sad is it that I’d kill for a starter with the numbers Elliott gave us. If we had a goalie that was at 2.55 and .910 we’re probably first in the division. Smith better turn it around and quick.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

How sad is it that I’d kill for a starter with the numbers Elliott gave us. If we had a goalie that was at 2.55 and .910 we’re probably first in the division. Smith better turn it around and quick.

Elliott made his numbers mid-season and wasn't there when it counted.

[the-rasta-masta]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Everything Duchene has said media wise has been how much he misses Colorado and once an Av always an Av. Sounds to me like he intends to go back to Colorado so I would seriously pass on giving up assets to rent him.

I hadn't heard that. Didn't he ask to be traded?

[Flamenspiel]

With regards to Matt Duchene, please not. Are we really going to follow Ottawa down the rabbit hole of franchise killing strategies? Colorado improved when they got rid of him.

[ToraToraTora]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

With regards to Matt Duchene, please not. Are we really going to follow Ottawa down the rabbit hole of franchise killing strategies? Colorado improved when they got rid of him.

So lets get him and then get rid of him. Fix all the problems!

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by the-rasta-masta

I hadn't heard that. Didn't he ask to be traded?

https://twitter.com/Matt9Duchene/sta...566507009?s=19

[Enoch Root]

I have mixed feelings about commenting on Sigalet because I admit I am no goalie expert. But I feel that I see one thing continually, with all of the goalies over the last few years, that really bothers me. And I believe that it causes poor results.

And that is the tendency of all Flames goalies to stay back in their crease, and go down on their knees, when there are shots from the point or through traffic. And it seems to me that the goalies look very small when they do this.

While I thought Smith had a pretty good bounce-back game against the Caps, there was the one shot from the point where it was debated whether or not he was screened. I'll ignore that debate, but what I saw was that there was an awful lot of open net, and the puck had no trouble finding it. Which seems to happen a LOT.

Smith is huge. IMO, a large part of NHL goaltending is positioning. And a guy the size of Smith should be able to cover a lot of the net, especially if he comes out a bit and cuts off the angle.

But somehow he is managing to look small in the net. I don't know... frustrating.

Though I am all for better defensive coverage as well.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Elliott made his numbers mid-season and wasn't there when it counted.

100% agree, not advocating for Elliott at all, just if we had starter in general with those stats, we’re most likely leading the division. Smith’s play has sewered us for the most part.

[David Struch]

Originally Posted by Toonage

On that note Philadelphia does have some decisions to make soon. Neuvirth, Elliott, Pickard all up with the team

If something was in the works with Mike Smith and the Flyers it has to be Michal Neuvirth coming back to Calgary, it couldn't possibly be the return of Brian Elliott... could it?

[timbit]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

100% agree, not advocating for Elliott at all, just if we had starter in general with those stats, we’re most likely leading the division. Smith’s play has sewered us for the most part.

Flames are playing very well without the puck and Smith looks fine.

Any correlation?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by timbit

Flames are playing very well without the puck and Smith looks fine.

Any correlation?

Almost like cutting down on ten bell chances helps the save percentage.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by timbit

Flames are playing very well without the puck and Smith looks fine.

Any correlation?

On the flip side, Leafs are playing very poorly without the puck and Andersen is two thirds the way of pitching a shutout.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

On the flip side, Leafs are playing very poorly without the puck and Andersen is two thirds the way of pitching a shutout.

You of all people should know the risk of using too small a sample.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I have mixed feelings about commenting on Sigalet because I admit I am no goalie expert. But I feel that I see one thing continually, with all of the goalies over the last few years, that really bothers me. And I believe that it causes poor results.

And that is the tendency of all Flames goalies to stay back in their crease, and go down on their knees, when there are shots from the point or through traffic. And it seems to me that the goalies look very small when they do this.

While I thought Smith had a pretty good bounce-back game against the Caps, there was the one shot from the point where it was debated whether or not he was screened. I'll ignore that debate, but what I saw was that there was an awful lot of open net, and the puck had no trouble finding it. Which seems to happen a LOT.

Smith is huge. IMO, a large part of NHL goaltending is positioning. And a guy the size of Smith should be able to cover a lot of the net, especially if he comes out a bit and cuts off the angle.

But somehow he is managing to look small in the net. I don't know... frustrating.

Though I am all for better defensive coverage as well.

I havne't been following threads here that closely lately. Did you guys see the piece on athletic about goalie coaches? And about the flames goalie coaches in particular?

Worth the read including David Marcoux almost getting his head taken off by D Sutter in practice when sutter purposely fired a puck at his head. And they acknowledge (i think it was Sigalet who said it) that it's tough to gauge what impact if any they have on goalies' performance. I would think close video review and analysis of a tendency or a weakness and some follow up drills to correct is the main purpose of these guys. Most ex-goalies should be able to do that job.

Anyway....i'm hard on sigalet too, but maybe none of these guys are actually whisperers. Instead maybe our goalies suck.

[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

Anyway....i'm hard on sigalet too, but maybe none of these guys are actually whisperers. Instead maybe our goalies suck.

Isn't that a bit like saying "maybe no coach is a PP whisperer. Instead maybe our forwards just suck" and we should be getting rid of Ward?

I am not an Athletic subscriber so I did not read the article you mentioned.

I agree with you to a point -

I would think close video review and analysis of a tendency or a weakness and some follow up drills to correct is the main purpose of these guys.

- Shouldn't a coach have some overall / big picture philosophy on the position? Stand tall / play the angles / cover the bottom half / play deep / play out - something that says playing this way will help accentuate your strengths and limit your perceived weaknesses?

I also agree with you here -

Most ex-goalies should be able to do that job.

- but get an ex-NHL goalie to do it.

I don't think a goalie coach can turn Andre Racicot into Patrick Roy, but they should be able to avoid turning an average goalie into a sieve.

Hartley wasn't working, bring in Gulutzan, Gulutzan not working, bring in Peters. Sigalet not working, bring in new goalies, Sigalet not working, bring in new goalies. Anyone else see the disconnect?