Started my DS9 rewatch now that I finished TNG. DS9 is my favourite Star Trek series by far, although when I first started watching it, I had trouble getting into it and abandoned it until I got caught up later. I began watching reruns overnight when I was working nights, and since then I have loved it.
DS9 is often described as the first seasons are a bit messy, at least until the Dominion kicks in, and they get the Defiant. And there are some truly weak episodes in Season 1, such as Move Along Home (Allamaraine!), The Storyteller (O'Brien has to stop a storm by telling a story), and even Q-Less is kind of weak.
It was obvious they tried to show that it was the same universe as TNG, as Picard and Q and Vash and Lwaxana and the Duras sisters all stop by. Lwaxana's episode is actually one of her better ones, as she and Odo bond.
The acting is a bit uneven in Season 1, with Kira especially learning to tone it down. Bashir takes over the Geordi creepiness, hitting on Dax every chance he gets and not taking no for an answer, and this would continue in later seasons with other female characters.
Interesting that O'Brien hates him at first, knowing where that friendship goes. We really did see the characters grow and mature over the 7-season run. The season, as per Star standards, saw some excellent one-off guest stars, such as Jonathan Banks and Harris Yulin and Gregory Itzin and Anne Haney and Brian Keith and Jeffrey Nordling.
One thing DS9 did really great was build up a background cast - Rom and Nog, Winn and Bareil, Zek and then of course, Dukat and Garak. They fleshed out the Ferengi a great deal, and Sisko was a much different leader than in any other Star Trek show.
And there were several great episodes in the season; Emissary, where I loved how they showed Sisko's burning anger with Picard after the death of his wife, and how he had never really left that moment; Progress, where Kira has to convince an old Bajoran to move; Dramatis Personae, where the crew conspires against each other.
And it has one of my favourite episodes of television in Duet, where a Cardassian alleged to formerly run a labour camp is on DS9, and Kira and Odo and Sisko have to find out the truth.
The season ends with the introduction of Winn, a world-class villain played with poisonous sweetness by the great Louise Fletcher. Not a cliffhanger, but leading into the events early in Season 2, as well as the ongoing fight for who becomes the next Kai.
But what a great cast; Sisko is my favourite commander, and I've always loved O'Brien. I love how the smartest person on the station is a woman with a slug in her belly, and Bashir, once he got over his puppy-ness, became a better character (when he wasn't inappropriately hitting on women). And of course, Quark and Odo, who continued their repartee for all 7 seasons, with never a dull moment.
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I will say that Louis Fletcher has always been one of my favorite character actresses, because she plays the villain with such subtly.
Yeah the first season was uneven because they were lego building with what was a huge ensemble cast. And Kira ran around too much arguing and being all yelling and stuff, but by the 3rd season she was solid.
Bashir didn't really come into his own until the episode where we found out that he was genetically altered and he got a steaming hot cup of humbleness.
Going back and watching it, its funny how the effects and CGI were state of the art at the time, but they really haven't aged well.
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DS9's batting average is better than TNG, but the Dominion war has way too many episodes for how interesting it actually was. The female changeling was particularly bland.
Nobody should ever argue with someone that likes something more then something else.
I will say that I did like DS9 better then TNG, and that's not saying TNG was bad.
But DS9 was a departure from what I believe was a bland future vision by Roddenberry.
I liked in DS9 that the series started with the whole high nose Federation, and the lectures of us being past money, and everyone is equal, and all of that stuff. But you could literally see the corruption around the edges, humans on the station trying to make a quick buck, criminals, and criminal organizations.
And then the war came, and when you put the Federation in a little bit of jeopardy, how quick did the Federation sell out its ideas.
Biological warfare, military coupes, A heroic high minded Captain participating in a criminal conspiracy that included murder to get the Romulans on their side. Allying with a race that was participating in war crimes and genocide. A shadowy organization with a motto that was literally "all paths to victory". Attempts to topple formerly friendly governments.
IT was too me, an exposure that the Federation itself was a mask, a bit of a lie, and a failed experiment. The Federation during that war, literally became like their Mirror counterparts. And it made for a brilliant story.
I also thought because the main characters in DS9 weren't afraid to dirty themselves up, that it made their characters a little deeper then their counterparts on the Enterprise, and it made Sisko a little more of a realistic Captain because he had to embrace the militancy of that role, as opposed to Picard who considered himself an explorer first, at least until he got a bit of bitterness into him thanks to the Borg. And lets look beyond Picards eagerness to break the Prime Directive (9 times admittedly). He was willing to plan the genocide of an entire race by sending a drone back to the Borg with an implanted virus.
I've always said it would be fascinating to see what became of the Federation after the Dominion War, and not the Discovery Future. But this was a Federation that was pushed to the brink of defeat had probably seen billions die. I would expect that in the back rooms Federation leaders and Admirals were muttering the line "Never Again". And maybe it would start with a redefinition of Star Fleet.
The whole exploration and discovery of new life would be marginally changed to "Discover New Life and New Civilization, and see if its a threat to humanity". Maybe Star Ship designs would change "You know if we don't bring families along, and we get rid of some of these research labs, we could fit in heavier shields and more torpedo tubes." I mean a Prime Example of it would be the Galaxy class, with its 2 torpedo launchers and 12 phaser banks, then they replace it with the Sovereign Class with 4 torpedo tubes, one rapid fire Quantum Torpedo tubes, 14 heavy phaser arrays, and twice the shielding and twice the armor.
So then what comes next? Our black agency section 31, starts spying on threatening races, researches how to kill them quicker.
Maybe the Admirals and leaders look at the destruction caused by the Dominion, and say, yes we have peace but what's next, and is our current system government going to hold out when the next inevitable war comes along. Maybe we need to consolidate the leadership of the Military and Civilian Government, so we can build ships faster, and conscript fleet personal quicker, just in case.
I expect by any kind of Logical Timeline that if we were honest, the Federation a 100 years after the Dominion War would look very much like a benevolent empire like the Romans.
So, yeah, I do like DS9 a bit better because I also think that the stories coming out of it could be way more interesting.
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You know, many people (including me) say DS9 took a few seasons to reach it's stride, but this season was pretty excellent - far better than S2 of TNG.
The season starts with a bang with "The Circle" storyline, essentially a three-parter that sees the Federation give up the Station to the Bajorans, but hide on board to prove the Cardassians are behind the Circle.
We get further insights into Cardassia, including "Cardassians" when a Bajoran comes aboard with a Cardassian war orphan. We get further into the Ferengi with "Rules of Acquisition", where a female Ferengi dresses as a male to be accepted, and falls for Quark.
The relationship between Odo and Kira is further delved into with "Necessary Evil," where Odo solves a murder from when DS9 was Terok Nor. The seeds of Bashir and O'Brien's friendship are planted in "Armageddon Game," where O'Brien gets exposed to a deadly disease while they are on the run from government assassins. Odo's "childhood" is explored in "The Alternate"
We also get to see just how well Sisko can do a slow burn, especially in "Paradise Lost," where they discover a lost Earth Colony who has eschewed technology. We see more of Trill and joining issues in both "Invasive Procedures," where a Trill takes the symbiont from Jadzia, and then "Playing God," where Dax has to mentor an initiate.
We also get to see into Garak's life with "The Wire," where his implant is trying to kill him. We delve into O'Brien's feelings about the Cardassians when they put him on trial in "Tribunal," which I believe is also the first hints of Section 31.
The Maquis kick it into high gear in a two-parter, Bajoran politics are exposed in "The Collaborator," which sees Winn get closer to being Kai, and we the mirror universe for the first time since TOS; a well which DS9 would go to often, and iirc, would see a Ferengi die in each mirror episode.
We are also fortunate to get "Blood Oath", in which Kor, Kahless, and Kang from TOS team up with Dax in a truly wonderful episode.
And then, we get one of Star Trek's finer season finale in "The Jem'Hadar." We've been getting hints of the Dominion, but here they are shown as an antagonist for the first time, and we meet both the Jem'Hadar and the Vorta. I love the Jem'Hadar ships, and one of them doing a kamikaze run on the Galaxy-class Odyssey was pretty shocking at the time.
And of course, it wouldn't be Star Trek without great guest actors, and it wouldn't be DS9 without recurring characters; Garak, Winn, Bareil, Rom, Nog, and Dukat are all back for more. We see characters from other Star Treks like Kang, Kohloth, and Kor, as well as Gul Evek and Vice-Admiral Nechayev.
Plus the amazing guest stars as always: John Glover, Salli Richardson-Whitfield, Richard Kiley, James Sloyan, Tony Plana, Caroline Lagerfelt, Alan Oppenheimer, Cress Williams, and then in "The Circle" trilogy; Frank Langella, Steven Macht, and Steven Weber.
And of course, with the Dominion coming, we know the Defiant is coming too.
Season 2 gets over looked by just how much things kick up a notch in season 3 and 4, but it's still a great season and like you said, way better than Season 2 of tng
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Originally Posted by Ped
We are also fortunate to get "Blood Oath", in which Kor, Kahless, and Kang from TOS team up with Dax in a truly wonderful episode.
Koloth.
Kahless is their Jesus Christ equivalent.
Played by the great William Campbell who was also Trelane.
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Last edited by Blaster86; 07-12-2024 at 04:14 PM.
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Season 2 gets over looked by just how much things kick up a notch in season 3 and 4, but it's still a great season and like you said, way better than Season 2 of tng
Koloth.
Kahless is their Jesus Christ equivalent.
Played by the great William Campbell who was also Trelane.
I thought the exact same thing on my last rewatch. The trill are a great analogy for trans folk, and the respect with which people who were friends with Curzon hold Jadzia is a model. It helped that a good friend of mine had just begun her transition right before rewatch, but I felt very warm inside watching this!
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I thought the exact same thing on my last rewatch. The trill are a great analogy for trans folk, and the respect with which people who were friends with Curzon hold Jadzia is a model. It helped that a good friend of mine had just begun her transition right before rewatch, but I felt very warm inside watching this!
Hahaha, Kor was much more openminded about it; Kang and Koloth were much more skeptical.
[at the replimat, Koloth is eating]
KOLOTH: I see the Federation insults us by sending a lieutenant to greet us.
DAX: You never had much use for the Federation, did you Koloth? I used to call you D'akturak—"Iceman"—because no proposal, no matter how reasonable, no matter how much it favoured the Klingon Empire would satisfy you. You were the toughest man I ever faced across the negotiations table.
[Koloth, surprised, turns to Kor]
KOR: Do you not recognize our old friend, Dax?
[Koloth turns back to Jadzia, looks her over, then turns back to Kor]
KOLOTH: Dax?!
[Kor laughs]
DAX: Curzon's dead, but Dax is alive as a part of me.
[Koloth looks back and forth at Jadzia and Kor]
KOLOTH: This is a mistake! Kang must not have known!
KOR: Ah, but what a beautiful mistake, hm? [giggles]
DAX: Is Kang coming?
KOR: Of course he's coming. He's brought the four of us back together after eighty-one years.
DAX: Could it possibly mean that he's—
KANG: Yes. That is exactly what it means. I have found the Albino.
[scene moves to Jadzia's quarters]
DAX: Kang, do you remember the first time we sat together over baHgol? It was the Korvat colony. The Federation and the Klingon Empire were still enemies.
KANG: I never sat with you before today.
DAX: I am Dax, godfather of your son.
KOLOTH: You are no one's godfather.
DAX: I am Dax, godfather of your son.
KANG: So, you are the same Dax who took a blood oath with us to seek vengeance?
DAX: Don't mistake a new face for a new soul, Kang. I still feel at one with your family just as I did eight decades ago. I hope one day you will embrace me as a brother again.
KOLOTH: Brother! Ha!
KOR: Oh, 'brother', 'sister': what's the difference? We're all here now! Speak to us, Kang: where is he? Where did you find the Albino?
Hahaha, Kor was much more openminded about it; Kang and Koloth were much more skeptical.
[at the replimat, Koloth is eating]
KOLOTH: I see the Federation insults us by sending a lieutenant to greet us.
DAX: You never had much use for the Federation, did you Koloth? I used to call you D'akturak—"Iceman"—because no proposal, no matter how reasonable, no matter how much it favoured the Klingon Empire would satisfy you. You were the toughest man I ever faced across the negotiations table.
[Koloth, surprised, turns to Kor]
KOR: Do you not recognize our old friend, Dax?
[Koloth turns back to Jadzia, looks her over, then turns back to Kor]
KOLOTH: Dax?!
[Kor laughs]
DAX: Curzon's dead, but Dax is alive as a part of me.
[Koloth looks back and forth at Jadzia and Kor]
KOLOTH: This is a mistake! Kang must not have known!
KOR: Ah, but what a beautiful mistake, hm? [giggles]
DAX: Is Kang coming?
KOR: Of course he's coming. He's brought the four of us back together after eighty-one years.
DAX: Could it possibly mean that he's—
KANG: Yes. That is exactly what it means. I have found the Albino.
[scene moves to Jadzia's quarters]
DAX: Kang, do you remember the first time we sat together over baHgol? It was the Korvat colony. The Federation and the Klingon Empire were still enemies.
KANG: I never sat with you before today.
DAX: I am Dax, godfather of your son.
KOLOTH: You are no one's godfather.
DAX: I am Dax, godfather of your son.
KANG: So, you are the same Dax who took a blood oath with us to seek vengeance?
DAX: Don't mistake a new face for a new soul, Kang. I still feel at one with your family just as I did eight decades ago. I hope one day you will embrace me as a brother again.
KOLOTH: Brother! Ha!
KOR: Oh, 'brother', 'sister': what's the difference? We're all here now! Speak to us, Kang: where is he? Where did you find the Albino?
Absolutely, Kor was the glue. But by the end of the episode they'd all had touching brotherhood moments with Dax. It's a great analogy in general to how people will react to Trans folk. Some will accept easily. Some will act like a person has died and there's someone totally new there. Some will bristle but cede.
In the end their friendship was the same.
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It's not only the klingons though. There's a few other episodes where Curzon's past comes up for Jadzia. Notably she is still in love with someone Kurzon was, and that love is returned.
If you're thinking of the episode "Rejoined", the story involved the symbiont whose previous host was married to Torias Dax. Torias was the second-last host before Curzon. (Chronologically it went Lela-->Tobin-->Emony-->Audrid-->Torias-->Joran-->Curzon-->Jadzia-->Ezri.)
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Dang, I'm about four episodes into season four, and bald Sisko looks a hundred times more badass than seasons 1-3 Sisko. It's such a stark difference I'm wondering if he gained weight, lost weight, if the muscle definition in his face changed, had plastic surgery, or maybe it's all the goatee. Can't pinpoint it.
I think it just came down to how Avery Brooks carried himself after shaving his head and growing his beard back out. And those who remembered Brooks's role as 'Hawk' on Spenser: For Hire and its brief spinoff, A Man Called Hawk, it reminded them of that character (a certified BAMF). Brooks naturally kept a bare head and a goatee before landing the gig as Sisko, but producers encouraged him to grow his hair out and shave the beard so that 1) viewers wouldn't immediately associate him with Hawk, and 2) they already had a bald captain on TNG, and that was a big deal at the time; they didn't want another, the fact he was black was a big enough deal all on its own.
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