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Old 07-08-2010, 11:40 PM   #381
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Does anyone at this point want these guys to succeed? I know I don't. Wade I'm fine with because he stayed put, as for the other two, I hope they never win. At this point there is no way LeBron can end up as one of the greatest since he will always be thought of as the guy who had to form part of a super team to win.
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Old 07-08-2010, 11:47 PM   #382
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Does anyone at this point want these guys to succeed? I know I don't. Wade I'm fine with because he stayed put, as for the other two, I hope they never win. At this point there is no way LeBron can end up as one of the greatest since he will always be thought of as the guy who had to form part of a super team to win.
It's a spectator sport, this is a spectacle. There's only a handful of decent NBA teams as it is, they could contract five teams and it wouldn't really affect the talent pool.

The regular season will be equally as terrible, the Finals likely better.

Plus, as a Raps fan, the Ewing Theory is the best news for this team since they drafted Bosh.
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Old 07-08-2010, 11:50 PM   #383
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Does anyone at this point want these guys to succeed? I know I don't. Wade I'm fine with because he stayed put, as for the other two, I hope they never win. At this point there is no way LeBron can end up as one of the greatest since he will always be thought of as the guy who had to form part of a super team to win.
I'd like to see them do well. Be in the mix in the conference finals and finals. I may cheer against that at that point but I'd like to see them there.

And yes, Lebron will be nowhere near the greatest when it's all said and done.
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Old 07-08-2010, 11:51 PM   #384
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Just to be clear, you're asking what other choice the Knicks had but to trade away their veterans in packages with prospects and picks to purge their rosters.

You're asking what else Chicago could have done but trade a solid PG on a fine contract away with a 1st round pick for nothing?
The Knicks said about 3 years ago they were going to try to be ready for 2010. Isiah screwed up the team so badly with bad contract after bad contract, and lack of good picks that they had no other way to acquire talent.

They were rebuilding anyways.

They kept the good first rounder they had in Galinari, but Jordan Hill was expendable if the price was right. He wouldn't have gotten playing time anyways since Stoudemire was signed.

Chicago fans disliked Hinrich and his contract. He was a backup PG who no longer played much defense and was a streaky shooter and poor facilitator making $9 a year.

Lebron made it clear that he was going to need a sidekick. They obliged and voila that trade happened.

Now is it good for business with stuff going on like this? No. But if you have a chance to blast right into the NBA finals more or less with a decent roster surrounding Lebron and Robin, you do it.

Hell, Chicago only made those moves because Worldwide Wes told them to. He made them believe they were the front runners, and it's widely publicized that he was.

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LeBron didn't sign an extension. The Knicks openly courted him, Mark Cuban indicated his interest, and
LeBron didn't sign an extension. He didn't even promise to like Boozer or McGrady did.
He did not leave his engaged wife at the alter, he left his longtime girlfriend that is now clinging to an old reference of "we're going to be so happy" out of spite.
The FA class of 2010 was known for a while, you don't need to tell me what was happening, my team was one team who's season was acceptable because of the outlook to this offseason.

Lebron said he would stay. He gave every indication he would stay. Any man with a heart would have stayed.

You don't need to play hard ass, and say he didn't promise, or sign an extension, we know that. I don't know what you're arguing here. He was a complete ass to the Cavaliers with how he handled this situation.

No, you're right Lebron didn't leave his estranged wife at the alter. He buried her alive and then pissed in the cardboard box he put her in.

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A bought out center + Aaron and Eric Williams?

Those fans are moron.
Some fans recognized that Vince was mistreated by management(told the new GM would have NBA experience, most likely be Dr. J - never interviewed him, told him that the wouldn't rebuild - started to rebuild). Vince handled it improperly, but Bosh has kind of been out of Toronto for years.

All he's done is talk about how he's waited for years for this free agency(ie till get could get out of Toronto) among other tweets. Raps fans have labeled it "twittergate."

Also, Carter netted stuff for them. Zo gave them cap space(since they knew he wouldn't show) they got a couple first rounders, and the Williamses turned into picks I believe.
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:01 AM   #385
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This is a perfect juxtaposition of the double standard.

In the first paragraph, you talk about how LeBron had no rights and belonged to the Cavs. The Cavs could do as they pleased because LeBron didn't have enough service time to decide for himself. You seem to have no problem with LeBron having to do whatever the heck the Cavs wanted (although I think he could have just played out the team-option year and been an UFA two years earlier).
Lebron wanted to stay at the end of the day, and I added the last bit to be hypothetical. I guess he could have forced a trade, but I don't see what you were getting at in the first place.


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Then, in the second paragraph, instead of staying on this path of acting within rights and stating "there was a 100% chance of LeBron leaving" you slide into emotional arguments.

By going to free agency he already had communicated to the Cav fans that he could leave. Then he did. He may have gone about it arrogantly...this is the guy who was nicknamed The King as an 18-year old. Hardly new.
No, he told Cavs fans "I'm not leaving Cleveland until I win a title." that's paraphrased, but that was the message. This was in April.

What I'm mad about was the way he handled affairs. That was myself and the Captain's anger issue. It was completely narcissistic and childish. I don't see how you can say anything different, seeing as you're still pissed off about Vince by the sound of things. Both were classless when they left. Bosh was classless. It's extremely obvious, and that's the only thing I have a problem with. I'm not really sure how this got side tracked, but that's the only problem here.
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:09 AM   #386
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No, you're right Lebron didn't leave his estranged wife at the alter. He buried her alive and then pissed in the cardboard box he put her in.
So he buried his wife in a cardboard box and then pissed on it?

I'm so far away from you on that.

Let me ask you this; assuming LeBron intended to leave the Cavs - he decided during the playoffs. Game four against the Celtics he decides he wants to leave because he doesn't like the coach/roster/whatever or maybe just wants to play with guys that aren't intimidated by him. Hadn't decided where to go.

What would you have expected him to do? When should he have informed the Cavs?
And if you found out that Bosh and Wade spurned his recruitment to become Cavs would that change your perception?
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:15 AM   #387
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What I'm mad about was the way he handled affairs. That was myself and the Captain's anger issue. It was completely narcissistic and childish.
I don't condemn people for that, especially not guys that were recruited to colleges as middle-schoolers.

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I don't see how you can say anything different, seeing as you're still pissed off about Vince by the sound of things. Both were classless when they left.
You don't see the difference?
One player was under contract, being payed handsomely, openly disrespected paying customers, and aborted the team's long-term plan.

LeBron was not under contract. He could have quit basketball to play baseball, he could have started his own league, he could have run for president - he decided to play with his friends on the beach after fully and dutifully fulfilling his contract.

I certainly see a difference.
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:16 AM   #388
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So he buried his wife in a cardboard box and then pissed on it?

I'm so far away from you on that.

Let me ask you this; assuming LeBron intended to leave the Cavs - he decided during the playoffs. Game four against the Celtics he decides he wants to leave because he doesn't like the coach/roster/whatever or maybe just wants to play with guys that aren't intimidated by him. Hadn't decided where to go.

What would you have expected him to do? When should he have informed the Cavs?
And if you found out that Bosh and Wade spurned his recruitment to become Cavs would that change your perception?
It's unfortunate, because during the playoffs he said he was going to stay. You keep going around that quote. He said point blank he would be a Cav until a title was won at least.

You're not getting it. Bosh was never going to become a Cav. We've known all along. Beat reporters have told us all along. Wade wasn't leaving Miami unless it was Chicago(kids live their).

It's the fashion in which he did it. He didn't so much as phone Dan Gilbert to say I'm not going to stay, or say I'm leaning towards the Heat. Anyone with a heart would give a heads up. He didn't phone any other team for that matter, after all the wiggling around to suit him.

He instead went on national TV to talk about how great he is, how much he has done for Cleveland and that he is leaving Cleveland. This isn't a Texas boy leaving Cleveland, this is his homestate. This is his state. He was king there. But he didn't have the decency to say goodbye or thank you. That's why people are mad.
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:20 AM   #389
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No, he told Cavs fans "I'm not leaving Cleveland until I win a title." that's paraphrased, but that was the message. This was in April.
At the risk of pulling a Riccardi, maybe he wasn't lying. Maybe when he said that he meant it.

He's clearly in-the-wrong in hindsight, but do you think he gave up the right to choose because of that quote?

Maybe he didn't mean it, he actually meant 'you Cleveland fans better hope I win this season.....', then what?
He's rotten because he lied and didn't say that in April?

Last edited by Gozer; 07-09-2010 at 02:10 AM. Reason: quote=choice
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:22 AM   #390
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I don't condemn people for that, especially not guys that were recruited to colleges as middle-schoolers.
You're strange then.

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You don't see the difference?
One player was under contract, being payed handsomely, openly disrespected paying customers, and aborted the team's long-term plan.

LeBron was not under contract. He could have quit basketball to play baseball, he could have started his own league, he could have run for president - he decided to play with his friends on the beach after fully and dutifully fulfilling his contract.

I certainly see a difference.
You're not seeing the problem, actually you are but you don't see how it is a problem.

The guy was an ASS to Cleveland fans. They put Lebron leaving above their football team leaving in the middle of the night un announced, and let me tell you, Modell hasn't been back to Cleveland and skipped one of his best friends' funerals in Cleveland because he was scared for his life. That's how sour they are.

Lebron lied to the fans. Lebron sent false messages the Cavs way. Lebron didn't say thank you or goodbye to all of his fans in Cleveland. No, Lebron embarrassed them on national TV, talked about how great he is and how lucky the Cavs are and completely removed himself from Ohio. The place he was heralded as king, and won't be anywhere else. If you want to say that's not classless, then you really need to arrange a meeting with Noah Webster.
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:28 AM   #391
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At the risk of pulling a Riccardi, maybe he wasn't lying. Maybe when he said that he meant it.

He's clearly in-the-wrong in hindsight, but do you think he gave up the right to choose because of that choice?

Maybe he didn't mean it, he actually meant 'you Cleveland fans better hope I win this season.....', then what?
He's rotten because he lied and didn't say that in April?
You don't say that if there's the possibility of having second thoughts. The guy is everything to Cleveland, which in a way isn't his fault, but if he's this 25 year old MAN he talked about for half an hour, surely he recognized that.

Whether he meant it or not, it still goes down as a lie.

You're argument is really just going down the drain. That's what he said, I told you what he indicated to the Cavs, and he left them without so much as a thanks.

Let's review. He lied. Sent false signals. Tells Cleveland how lucky there are to have him, and how he did this and that for them, leaves his home state on national television without so much as a heads up to anyone before hand but it's not classless. Please.
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:30 AM   #392
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You're not getting it. Bosh was never going to become a Cav. We've known all along. Beat reporters have told us all along. Wade wasn't leaving Miami unless it was Chicago(kids live their).
Strange how you know all this stuff. It almost seems like you're picking out media speculation that supports your argument.

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He instead went on national TV to talk about how great he is, how much he has done for Cleveland and that he is leaving Cleveland. This isn't a Texas boy leaving Cleveland, this is his homestate. This is his state. He was king there. But he didn't have the decency to say goodbye or thank you. That's why people are mad.
I didn't watch the special, maybe I'm wrong. It just feels like LeBron is getting the brunt of the abuse when really the entire industry is at fault for propping him up as a god.



LeBron did nothing to besmirch the Cavs while an employee of theirs. I refuse to assume that he is fully at fault. Furthermore, the Cavs refused to discuss any kind of sign and trade to max LeBron's contract and soften the blow of his departure,

Lebron didn't issue and ultimatum and cut off lines of communication, the Cavs did.

Last edited by Gozer; 07-09-2010 at 12:39 AM.
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:38 AM   #393
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Let's review. He lied. Sent false signals. Tells Cleveland how lucky there are to have him, and how he did this and that for them, leaves his home state on national television without so much as a heads up to anyone before hand but it's not classless. Please.
Do you have any quotes other than this one, that sounds like a boast that the Cavs would win this (past) season?

Or is that one line the ultimate factor in your judgment?
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:39 AM   #394
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Strange how you know all this stuff. It almost seems like you're picking out media speculation that supports your argument.
If you are a Raptors fan, you would have seen that Colangelo said he would sign and trade Bosh to Cleveland. If the two teams are willing to do it, what's the one thing stopping it? Oh yeah the player.

But I'm picking it out of the media. All right there bud.

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I didn't watch the special, maybe I'm wrong. It just feels like LeBron is getting the brunt of the abuse when really the entire industry is at fault for propping him up as a good.



LeBron did nothing to besmirch the Cavs while an employee of theirs. I refuse to assume that he is fully at fault. Furthermore, the Cavs refused to discuss any kind of sign and trade to max LeBron's contract and soften the blow of his departure,

Lebron didn't issue and ultimatum and cut off lines of communication, the Cavs did.
Watch the special. He just talks about himself, and how great he is, and what he did for the Cavs, and the heights he brought them to.

They asked him if the teams that he didn't pick know they lost out, and he said "no they don't."

Maybe when you watch the special you will change your mind. Every single fan down south now hates Lebron minus Heat fans and the fans that just like Lebron and aren't attached to a team.

Lebron labeled himself the King. You can rightfully say that it isn't his fault that Cleveland the city sucks, the economy sucks, and that people worshipping him isn't his fault, but the man just left all of that without a peep. To not even say thank you fans, thank you Dan Gilbert, or give a heads up to them that he was leaving is disgraceful. If Lebron really had a heart, he would have stayed, and I think it's unanimous almost everywhere that it is a fact.
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:44 AM   #395
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Vanity is not a new vice for The One.
LeBron's "punkness" is less severe than any player that has demanded a trade while under contract.
Speaking only of his actions, he has done nothing wrong.
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:46 AM   #396
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If you are a Raptors fan, you would have seen that Colangelo said he would sign and trade Bosh to Cleveland. If the two teams are willing to do it, what's the one thing stopping it? Oh yeah the player.

But I'm picking it out of the media. All right there bud.
Argument not accepted. You and I don't know what the context of any of that is.


EDIT:
It's widely known that there was not a sign-and-trade. It is not known that Bosh solely blocked the move.

Maybe the Cavs refused to pay him the max, maybe the Raps wanted a 1st round pick, there are too many unknown variables to draw an absolute conclusion.

Last edited by Gozer; 07-09-2010 at 02:09 AM.
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:52 AM   #397
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Vanity is not a new vice for The One.
LeBron's "punkness" is less severe than any player that has demanded a trade while under contract.
Speaking only of his actions, he has done nothing wrong.
You just don't get it. You actually have zero understanding.
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:57 AM   #398
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Argument not accepted. You and I don't know what the context of any of that is.
How is it not understandable? It is WIDELY known, to the point that TSN put it on SC, and they don't put hearsay garbage on SC.

It's widely known. Don't try and say it isn't, because if you haven't heard it you've been living under a rock.

And you decide what's acceptable for arguments? I'm surprised you even pass you're own homemade litmus tests, seeing as you've been firing blanks on all you're "points" here.

I'm done. You completely fail to grasp obvious things. You are now trying to dispute facts, because you have trouble computing facts. You ignored the quote for the longest time, you ignored Lebron's actions, and all you have done is say Lebron can do what he wants. It really adds nothing to the conversation.
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Old 07-09-2010, 01:23 AM   #399
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Anyone know how many years these fools are signing for?

So right now they have 1 player signed, and these 3 will make minimum 15 per. So Chalmers and these fools will put them at least at 46 mill. They need to sign 11 more players for 11 mill soft cap? This will be a joke in its own right. No other team should help them out at all.

These fools not gonna win anything, Howard will eat B fool alive every time they'll play and put one strong defensive guy on wade and bam, and make J fool beat you and you've shut them down.

In the past it used to be beating guys now its teaming up with other stars and try to win a championship. And B fool, that guy is and will be a total crap player.

NBA is a JOKE! You got 3-4 teams with the stars. Too bad Thunder are in the west or else they'd destroy these guys.
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Old 07-09-2010, 01:56 AM   #400
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Anyone know how many years these fools are signing for?

So right now they have 1 player signed, and these 3 will make minimum 15 per. So Chalmers and these fools will put them at least at 46 mill. They need to sign 11 more players for 11 mill soft cap? This will be a joke in its own right. No other team should help them out at all.

These fools not gonna win anything, Howard will eat B fool alive every time they'll play and put one strong defensive guy on wade and bam, and make J fool beat you and you've shut them down.

In the past it used to be beating guys now its teaming up with other stars and try to win a championship. And B fool, that guy is and will be a total crap player.

NBA is a JOKE! You got 3-4 teams with the stars. Too bad Thunder are in the west or else they'd destroy these guys.
I think Lebron is signed for 5 years with the option to opt out after 3. I really hope Howard and the Magic come out of the east this year. Lebron was supposed to be the next MJ, instead he is piggybacking on his best friends team (Wade) and his donkey friend (Bosh).

I hope Miami gets crushed and it ends up in a disaster. Realistically though if they just get a half decent C then those guys will be coming out of the east for sure. I'll be pulling for anybody else in the entire league.
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