[Rumour] go to the new thread

[Vinny01]

How many more days until they file the grievance? It seemed like the threat of that got some traction toward closure. Once the grievance is filed does that stall trade talks even more?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

How many more days until they file the grievance? It seemed like the threat of that got some traction toward closure. Once the grievance is filed does that stall trade talks even more?

I think it may complicate things. I imagine there's no way the Sabres sign off on Eichel to have the alternate surgery without a trade in place because if he has the surgery that they oppose and there's complications they would be left holding the bag. I have to imagine a trade has to be first and I don't see how anyone can force the Sabres to accept a trade.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Pretty much. If he is lucky and had the surgery today, there is a very small chance he heals in time for the start of the Olympics. Doubtful USA Hockey would take him though with no games played.

I would bet that is part of why Buffalo has dragged this out. They know he wants to play in the Olympics, so they dragged it out long enough that he can't.

Gotta respect the pure spite in that decision.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

I would bet that is part of why Buffalo has dragged this out. They know he wants to play in the Olympics, so they dragged it out long enough that he can't.

Gotta respect the pure spite in that decision.

LOts of spite going around in the NHL these days. I think a lot of people are going 'Pandemic Crazy.'

[Scornfire]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

I would bet that is part of why Buffalo has dragged this out. They know he wants to play in the Olympics, so they dragged it out long enough that he can't.

Gotta respect the pure spite in that decision.

That'd be a pretty massive yikes

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

I would bet that is part of why Buffalo has dragged this out. They know he wants to play in the Olympics, so they dragged it out long enough that he can't.

Gotta respect the pure spite in that decision.

I doubt it - I think Buffalo wants to extract maximum value and are willing to wait as long as it takes, a la Colorado and Matt Duchene.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I haven't missed the point at all.

You came out and said a deal has to come to fruition to be a factual rumour.

Not true.

Your second paragraph is what you're complaining that others do ... subjectively deciding to believe something or not.

You guys are arguing the semantics of ‘rumour’.




Fact and Rumor are opposites. I agree with you Bingo that saying that “Buffalo and Calgary are discussing…” is probably a fact, but “Buffalo and Calgary are discussing trading Eichel for Lindholm and Hanifin” is an unsubstantiated rumour, i.e. not a fact. If someone involved in the discussions confirms that deal is being discussed then it is no longer a rumour, it is a fact, regardless whether the deal actually happens. If a media insider says it’s being discussed then maybe it’s a high quality rumour but it’s still not a fact. To me factual rumour is an oxymoron.

So where are we on the current rumours. Has anything been confirmed as fact?

[devo22]

Originally Posted by VilleN

I doubt it - I think Buffalo wants to extract maximum value and are willing to wait as long as it takes, a la Colorado and Matt Duchene.

well if that's their line of thinking, they're doomed. Offers will only get worse at this point.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by devo22

well if that's their line of thinking, they're doomed. Offers will only get worse at this point.

That might be correct, but if their line of thinking is revenge then I think they're even more doomed.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Pretty much. If he is lucky and had the surgery today, there is a very small chance he heals in time for the start of the Olympics. Doubtful USA Hockey would take him though with no games played.

Crap...I'd totally forgotten about the olympics. That does make an Eichel trade more appealing. Eichel will have a couple of extra weeks of rest during that break. Whoever acquires him will have that much less downtime.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by edslunch

You guys are arguing the semantics of ‘rumour’.




Fact and Rumor are opposites. I agree with you Bingo that saying that “Buffalo and Calgary are discussing…” is probably a fact, but “Buffalo and Calgary are discussing trading Eichel for Lindholm and Hanifin” is an unsubstantiated rumour, i.e. not a fact. If someone involved in the discussions confirms that deal is being discussed then it is no longer a rumour, it is a fact, regardless whether the deal actually happens. If a media insider says it’s being discussed then maybe it’s a high quality rumour but it’s still not a fact. To me factual rumour is an oxymoron.

So where are we on the current rumours. Has anything been confirmed as fact?

I'm fine with that.

The bigger point is that you need a deal to actually happen for the rumour to have ever been true.

Clearly that's not the case.

[Vinny01]

I said this a couple weeks back but I do think this is in the endgame now. Everyone wants this done and the fact they are in deep negotiations with at least 2 teams I do feel like they are going to get something done and I feel the true timeline is so Eichel should be able to play after the Olympics which likely is also around US Thanksgiving.

The league does not care if Eichel gets to play in the Olympics and if anything they prefer he doesn’t. I think the pressure will ramp up from all parties to ensure Eichel is healthy after the break.

[Royle9]

[Stanley]

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

Wow the more and more I hear of what people are suggesting for Eichel the more and more I am firmly hoping we DO NOT do it. Please Brad. Don’t get caught up in the insanity. Mortgaging the farm for a player with a broken neck is just insanity.

No kidding...that's how I feel too, the rumoured proposals are insane..

[genetic_phreek]

I'm assuming the teams that are interested in Eichel are willing to let him do his surgery?

If that's the case, why wouldn't Buffalo just let him do his surgery seeing that they are committed to trading him. Also if a trade doesn't happen right away and somehow Eichel is recovered, wouldn't it benefit the Sabres? His value would be higher and there might be some reconciliation between the two parties.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I haven't missed the point at all.

You came out and said a deal has to come to fruition to be a factual rumour.

Not true.

Your second paragraph is what you're complaining that others do ... subjectively deciding to believe something or not.

Hilarious. You do know that for something to be a "factual rumor" that there needs to be something proven and factual behind it, like the outcome? Fact is an antonym of rumor. The two shouldn't exist in the same space, but here you are tying them together.

We have NOTHING that is tying Buffalo and Calgary together on this other than the unsubstantiated "rumor" that Treliving is in on everything. That is the basis for your argument, that the Flames are in on Eichel because Treliving is "in on everything." I don't think I have to go into much depth to make you understand how much bull#### that is, as it is virtually impossible to be "in on everything." Beyond that "in on everything" there is nothing concrete from the Flames to suggest they are in the mix and nothing from Buffalo to suggest they are in the mix. Not even a comment from either team that there have been discussions. This is as tight as it gets.

Now, when actually thinking this "rumor" through, it doesn't make sense. The Flames do not have the cap space to take on $10M in contract. The Flames have established a full roster and have no gaps in it. The only way the Flames could make this work is to trade some big salary back, or find a third party to take on that big salary. It's not like Calgary is making moves that leads you to believe something is up. At least Vegas has the room, can make it work, and is making roster moves that could support a deal. Would I like a deal happen for the Flames? Yes. But is there any indication of them being heavily involved in this? No. To me it looks like they gave up on this a few weeks before training camp started and they filled out the roster. Or that's what the facts show anyway.

[devo22]

by the way, it's crazy to me how bad that Sabres roster is when you take a closer look at it. This is a team that has drafted in the top 10 pretty much every single year for a decade now, including two 1st overalls and two 2nd overalls. To have that little to show for it is pretty amazing.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by devo22

well if that's their line of thinking, they're doomed. Offers will only get worse at this point.

Did the Duchene offers get worse over time?

It’s possible the offers get better before the draft when more teams could afford him and realize they need the help, notwithstanding they lose a year off his contract. This year almost sunk anyway.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Hilarious. You do know that for something to be a "factual rumor" that there needs to be something proven and factual behind it, like the outcome? Fact is an antonym of rumor. The two shouldn't exist in the same space, but here you are tying them together.

We have NOTHING that is tying Buffalo and Calgary together on this other than the unsubstantiated "rumor" that Treliving is in on everything. That is the basis for your argument, that the Flames are in on Eichel because Treliving is "in on everything." I don't think I have to go into much depth to make you understand how much bull#### that is, as it is virtually impossible to be "in on everything." Beyond that "in on everything" there is nothing concrete from the Flames to suggest they are in the mix and nothing from Buffalo to suggest they are in the mix. Not even a comment from either team that there have been discussions. This is as tight as it gets.

Now, when actually thinking this "rumor" through, it doesn't make sense. The Flames do not have the cap space to take on $10M in contract. The Flames have established a full roster and have no gaps in it. The only way the Flames could make this work is to trade some big salary back, or find a third party to take on that big salary. It's not like Calgary is making moves that leads you to believe something is up. At least Vegas has the room, can make it work, and is making roster moves that could support a deal. Would I like a deal happen for the Flames? Yes. But is there any indication of them being heavily involved in this? No. To me it looks like they gave up on this a few weeks before training camp started and they filled out the roster. Or that's what the facts show anyway.

The only thing hilarious in this is you consistently doubling down on things that weren't said.

I never said it was a fact that Buffalo and Calgary was talking. Never said it was a fact that Calgary was in on Eichel.

The only thing I'm challenging is your simple summary that a deal has to come to fruition in order for the rumour to have been a fact. That's not true.

Maybe move on man, or at least stop trying to have both sides of the argument between you and me. Tiresome.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Did the Duchene offers get worse over time?

again, you can't compare the Eichel situation to healthy players like Duchene. Eichel has a major injury that needs surgery and months of recovery ... there's so much uncertainty regarding his longterm health and those worries will only grow the more time passes. We're slowly getting to the point where Euchel won't be available at all this season. Why exactly wouldn't the offers get worse over time? The longer Eichel is out, the bigger the risk for the team that trades for him. Buffalo can't win this.