That is right I forgot about that. So if they could still mortgage more of their future. Holland hates 2nd rounders almost as bad as Sutter when he was around.
Meanwhile, Jack Michaels on The Fan just now said Keith chose the Oilers because they have a chance to win the Cup. Uh...hello, the Oilers were the only team in the contest to "land" him.
That was one of the most homerrific hits I've ever heard.
Listened to some of that press availability, good stuff.
"Ken, are you aware of the analytics for Keith recently, does that concern you"
"This isn't about numbers, I got a 3 time cup winner, Conn Smythe, 2 gold medal winning top 4 defenceman!"
"He's 37 but he's a high level guy. I mean just look at Chelios, he played for 7 more years at that age"
This is the same type of reasoning the Oilers had for trading for Griffin Reinhart
Keith wanted more time with his kid, which I think is commendable. Him going to the Oilers pretty much guarantees he will be available to his boy sometime around the first week of April until mid-September.
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From HFBoard oiler fan, in analyzing MacT's management:
O.K. there has been a lot of talk on whether or not MacTavish has actually done a good job for us, most fans on this board are very basic in their analysis and I feel would change their opinion entirely if the team was successful.
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Keith is in retire mode. After they fall flat when the season starts, he will be putting in a Neal type effort. This team will be a lottery team so it is a good thing they they changed the rules that only the top 11 teams have the shot at the first overall.
Listened to some of that press availability, good stuff.
"Ken, are you aware of the analytics for Keith recently, does that concern you"
"This isn't about numbers, I got a 3 time cup winner, Conn Smythe, 2 gold medal winning top 4 defenceman!"
"He's 37 but he's a high level guy. I mean just look at Chelios, he played for 7 more years at that age"
Chris Chelios’ available possession stats from age 46-48 are better than Keith’s from age 35-37.
__________________ ”All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you.”
Meanwhile, Jack Michaels on The Fan just now said Keith chose the Oilers because they have a chance to win the Cup. Uh...hello, the Oilers were the only team in the contest to "land" him.
It was hilarious listening to him try and put a positive spin on this one. Hope Katz is paying these guys overtime for all the damage control.
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Location: Chicago Native relocated to the stinking desert of Utah
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I know that Keith's advanced stats have declined, but, many Chicago fans excuse him, and blame Colliton, for his wretched and ineffective hybrid system of alleged "defense". Keith and his style of play were never a match, and neither was any other Chicago D-Man. I would not be surprised to see DK improve his advanced stats slightly.
__________________ "If the wine's not good enough for the cook, the wine's not good enough for the dish!" - Julia Child (goddess of the kitchen)
I know that Keith's advanced stats have declined, but, many Chicago fans excuse him, and blame Colliton, for his wretched and ineffective hybrid system of alleged "defense". Keith and his style of play were never a match, and neither was any other Chicago D-Man. I would not be surprised to see DK improve his advanced stats slightly.
Not sure Edmonton and their 7 Giordano's are going to be much of an upgrade for him to improve even slightly. Looking forward to more "this guy scored" each year with the Oilers.
I know that Keith's advanced stats have declined, but, many Chicago fans excuse him, and blame Colliton, for his wretched and ineffective hybrid system of alleged "defense". Keith and his style of play were never a match, and neither was any other Chicago D-Man. I would not be surprised to see DK improve his advanced stats slightly.
Outside of Nurse, its not like they're going to be any real improvements, two raw rookies, one who struggles to turn, and both more offensive oriented. Russell who's an error machine who gets hero cookies for his block stats, however he causes most of those situations because he's weak on the boards, and old. You have Bear who's ok, but if he's your top line option your screwed.
You can put him with Nurse, but Nurse is Denis Gauthier 2.0 in that he's not great positionally and can be a give away machine.
With Keith you need to find a way to hide him or heavily support him. The Oilers don't have that. They might have with Larsson, but he's likely gone.
Even with Keith that looks like a holy crap bad defense with two fairly raw rookies coming in, a forward group that's allergic to their own end. Poor Smith might not want to resign to play 50 or 60 games with that group when he sees it.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
That is right I forgot about that. So if they could still mortgage more of their future. Holland hates 2nd rounders almost as bad as Sutter when he was around.
In theory, neither are wrong. When you have 26 year old Iggy and 27 year old Kipper, or McRai, you don’t need a surplus of players who are 2-5 years from taking a regular shift.
You want veteran NHL players.
But not like this.
Not like this…
__________________ ”All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you.”
What will the Flames do if Seattle does like Vegas and gives the Flames a pass on the expansion draft and does not choose Gio, but instead signs Spokane's Derek Ryan to a 1M deal?
Gio at 6.75 with his never winning a playoff series in his whole career leadership will be fortunate to have as good a season as Keith. Would that set the Flames back yet another year as it seem Keith is expected to do with the Oilers?
All of the sudden the Flames are short on cap space. Would that knock them out of the Eichel sweeps?
Would the Flames buy Gio out? Would they do a salary dump trade to make room for Eichel or UFA RW?
Cost of the salary dump? a 3rd and Kylington?
Your Giordano obsession is just odd.
He struggled early last year, but turned it around and finished the season as a solid 2 defenseman league wide in most categories.
Don't think his lack of playoff success is as big a factor as you think in a ... team sport.
The only angle that Edmonton has on this one is a hope that less minutes and a better team help turn around Keith's numbers. That is possible ... we saw it with Tanev this year.
But Tanev isn't trying to reverse a trend at age 37+
In theory, neither are wrong. When you have 26 year old Iggy and 27 year old Kipper, or McRai, you don’t need a surplus of players who are 2-5 years from taking a regular shift.
You want veteran NHL players.
But not like this.
Not like this…
When you pay a 2nd you really should try to get players that are with the team more than 9 games. Whole premise is to get a player that is NHL ready. At least Sutter got a few seasons from Rene Bourque and Kipper. Those two 2nds for AA was just a brutal trade any way you look at it. Which was probably the beginning of the end.
He struggled early last year, but turned it around and finished the season as a solid 2 defenseman league wide in most categories.
Don't think his lack of playoff success is as big a factor as you think in a ... team sport.
The only angle that Edmonton has on this one is a hope that less minutes and a better team help turn around Keith's numbers. That is possible ... we saw it with Tanev this year.
But Tanev isn't trying to reverse a trend at age 37+
Also Tanev doesn't have Mike Smith behind him to worry about like Keith now does.
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Don't insult other members; even if they are Canuck fans.
The argument that Keith is going to be better because it was Chicago making him bad, not him actually being bad, doesn't make any sense even if you're being charitable. I mean, he was one of their top d-men, playing a lot of minutes - if they were bad, you'd think he was a big part of why they were bad.
But regardless, you're effectively saying the stats are lying to us. Okay, fine. So what we're saying is that the only available evidence says that he's terrible, but we shouldn't trust it. Let's say we don't. Throw it in the garbage. We instead have to go with no evidence at all about whether he's any good or not. Would you sign a player at random for 5.5M for two years?
Further, it makes more sense to not throw out the stats but just assume that they underrate his abilities because he was on a team with poor defensive structure. Well, are the Oilers a team with significantly better defensive structure? How much is switching to the Oilers going to help? Because even if it does help somewhat, what that would do is take him from being statistically the worst defenseman in the league at preventing opposing team offence to... maybe replacement level? Maybe slightly above?
So everything goes right for you, your predictions were correct and Keith bounces back from terrible to passable. You're now paying a #5 defender 5.5 million for two years, and you gave up assets to do it.
There's just no way to spin it.
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