[PGT] Sens 6 Flames 1

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

You don't finish first in the conference by fluke. You have to have talent and ability to be able to pull it off. They did something right back then. They need to figure out how to recapture what they were doing well during the first 2/3 of that season. I seriously doubt Ward is capable of doing it.

It wasn't a fluke but everything clicked and they surprised some teams. Then they got punched in the face in 5 games.

The element of surprise is no longer there.

[Chingas]

Everyone talks accountability but when the lines are different every second shift how the hell do the players hold their linemates accountable? With new line mates every other shift it's like having a company vehicle that 100 people drive. The vehicle will be trashed in no time because no one is responsible for it.

This coach is not capable of sticking with anything for more than two shifts except for the reliance on a slow clunky system that doesn't fit our players and doesn't adapt when other teams figure it out.

For the first time that I can remember in a very long time I don't care if I see all or any of the game. I sat through the whole Pittsburgh misery until the end. I have never turned the game off until the clock runs out. Now I really don't give a crap if I watch it at all.

[JohnnyB]

One thing to be said about this season: it's short.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by transplant99

How about 16-17 and 17-18? You didnt include those years when many of the same guys were involved...wonder why?

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showth...12#post7738812

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The team was .500 with Bill Peters and playing poorly until he was fired for being a racist POS.
And I think the second half of the first season, the warts were starting to show.

Maybe if Trelieving had bucked up and hired one legit coach it wouldn't be so easy to blame coaching

Perhaps hiring a Boudreau, Gallant or similar coach would have allowed Trelieving to make the case the core isn't good enough to compete and force a change.

Unfortunately, by hiring Gulutzan, Peters and Ward he leaves a huge question mark out there about coaching.

If you want to fix the problem you don't change everything at once, you change one variable at a time.

Step 1 is to get a legit coach and see what happens. If the results are the same you have your answer. I won't believe we have properly evaluated what the current roster can do until a proper coach is hired.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by transplant99

That is you projecting what you want things to be.

How about 16-17 and 17-18? You didnt include those years when many of the same guys were involved...wonder why?

Good/great for 60 games.

Really less than average for 3 1/4 years around those 60

Which would likely be more indicative of the truth?

Not even close to the same thing.

Those teams had great underlying numbers and generally dictated play and drove possession.

Difference is they had the 25th best shooting percentage and 25th best save percentage in the league.

This team is different. They don’t dictate play. They are passive and collapse in their own zone. And their underlying stats have cratered in comparison to under Gulutzan and Peters iterations of the Flames.

Only thing keeping them afloat is Ward is getting decent shooting percentage (8.31% - 13th) and amazing goaltending (.926 - 6th) but his system is having them play way worse everywhere else on the ice.

In fact on the nights where Ward doesn’t get good goaltending the result often looks like tonight.

And that’s the biggest problem. These aren’t the same problems we’ve seen before, this team is playing worse than it has under any of the previous coaches. That’s why I think Ward and his systems are the biggest issue right now.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

But supposing that those same posters also spend most of their time defending those core players from criticism? There are some posters here who over-react and some who always defend the status quo. Our top line was completely ineffective against Dallas. I expected a shske-up. But no. And the same posters who defend Ward also defend Treliving, also defend Monahan, also defend Gio...maybe Johnny a little less even though he remains the piece with the most value.

So what exactly is the theory to change this team?

Are they the same posters?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Come on, Jiri

How the heck did Johnny get 99 points if he is not elite

Don’t you see these guys playing a bafflingly ineffective system and skating in to outnumbered situations?

You are right that this team isn’t good. But it’s not because it lacks talent

Gary Leeman scored 51 goals one year...Bernie Nichols scored 70!

I guess they were elite as well then?

JG is a great player (and when he is cookin one of the best to watch)...at one area of the game.

He is not an elite player at all though. Those guys are way more well rounded.

These days he looks like he is afraid of his own shadow...playing completely scared...of contact, of puck battles, and of his own end.

I know I know...its Wards fault though.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Come on, Jiri

How the heck did Johnny get 99 points if he is not elite

Don’t you see these guys playing a bafflingly ineffective system and skating in to outnumbered situations?

You are right that this team isn’t good. But it’s not because it lacks talent

Elite players are consistent players.
That’s what makes them elite.
Doing it once doesn’t make him elite.
The NHL has a rich history of players who had unusually high peaks that they never attained again

[Chingas]

This

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

https://jmalloryhockey.substack.com/...used-cgy-needs

A million times this!

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Like if a random junior coach can recognize the Flames breakout system and do a full breakdown of how teams can break it down and are anticipating it, you think the other NHL coaches aren’t all over that. Yet we still haven’t adjusted our breakout. https://jmalloryhockey.substack.com/...used-cgy-needs

^^^ that's just it. Absolutely mindblowing that Ward won't do his due diligence.

Season is slipping away fast!

[zamler]

Originally Posted by transplant99

JG is a great player (and when he is cookin one of the best to watch)...at one area of the game.

He is not an elite player at all though. Those guys are way more well rounded.

These days he looks like he is afraid of his own shadow...playing completely scared...of contact, of puck battles, and of his own end.

I know I know...its Wards fault though.

Have you watched Johnny lately? He is nothing like you describe, he digs in the corners doesn't shy away at all.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showth...12#post7738812

So its always the coaches fault. Never the players.

OK then.

LOL

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by Knut

The Oilers are 11-2 in their last 13 games. So no.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by transplant99

So its always the coaches fault. Never the players.

OK then.

LOL

Said no one ever. You’re still posting the same type of response. Literally the only poster who isn’t assessing things multi dimensionally is you.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Gary Leeman scored 51 goals one year...Bernie Nichols scored 70!

I guess they were elite as well then?

JG is a great player (and when he is cookin one of the best to watch)...at one area of the game.

He is not an elite player at all though. Those guys are way more well rounded.

These days he looks like he is afraid of his own shadow...playing completely scared...of contact, of puck battles, and of his own end.

I know I know...its Wards fault though.

The Bernie Nichols data point is one of my favourite trivia questions. When you ask people to name 70 goal scorers, he is one a lot of people don’t think of

But that’s with prime Gretzky bouncing pucks in off his ass, everybody knows that’s different than Johnny

Gary Leeman? Never heard of him, doesn’t ring a bell

Johnny afraid of his shadow? I see him busting his ass. But fine. Put Lucic there, he can be the Semenko. Can’t get worse

Hey man I don’t have to talk about Ward all the time. Will quickly note without dwelling that he sucks and has to go. Everybody knows. Nothing anybody says can absolve him of this. It’s just who wants to rip the bandaid off and when they get around to it

I’m watching now because I am curious as to what rock bottom is and what it takes to make a change.

[Enoch Root]

The Flames were outscored tonight by the defensive pairing of Gudbranson and Brannstrom. Before tonight, that pairing had combined for 1 goal on the season.

Are people going to claim that the Ottawa Senators are more talented than the Flames?

Or is it time to accept that the style of hockey being played by the Flames is not only mind-numbingly boring, it is also utterly and completely inept?

The pace at which they play, the degree to which they are hesitant and uncertain, and the purpose they try to employ of playing safe, 50/50 hockey, are all complete and total failures.

This team is getting worse by the day. No, by the period.

I just can't care anymore.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by transplant99

So its always the coaches fault. Never the players.

OK then.

LOL

It's both. But sometimes it more of one and less of the other. To figure out which party is more to blame in the current situation, you have to actually watch the games and analyze what's going on. Recommend having a look at the blog that SuperMatt linked to.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by zamler

Have you watched Johnny lately? He is nothing like you describe, he digs in the corners doesn't shy away at all.

What????????????

He is playing frightened as hell since the last Winnipeg game where he got crunched a bit....stick checks from 5 feet away....refuses to take a hit....and he is starting to blow the zone again though i dont blame him for that as the club is usually trailing and needs a spark.

No idea what you are seeing.

Im not even knocking him but he is not "elite" because of one superb year...which was the point.

[zamler]

Calgary starts games playing like they are protecting a 5 goal lead with 3:00 left.