Should Calgary Bid on the 2026 Olympics

[FlameOn]

So Chu "wants to kill" the Olympic bid while trying to get the facts about whether a bid should take place and now refuses a plebicite when he had previously wanted one?

He seems a bit erratic.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by transplant99

The C-Train was not a result of the Olympics. It was in use before the games were even awarded.

The NW leg was fast-tracked for the Olympics.

I don't know where the C-Train system would be today without the Olympics, but I'm sure I wouldn't have been able to take the train to the University in the early 90s if not for the Olympics in 1988.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by transplant99

The C-Train was not a result of the Olympics. It was in use before the games were even awarded.

I thought the city had to change plans and put the downtown portion above ground so that the NW line would be ready on time. If that was the case it’d be hard to call that a positive impact.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Yeah that's for sure one way to look at it. But why can't we build those projects without the risk of an Olympics and without the extra goodies we already have? When your convention center is almost 50% over budget, you're not getting a great deal. The Sea to Sky is also likely very much over the original 500 million construction estimate.

I wonder if that's what happens when you pick vendors who undercut, and then issue change orders after work has begun.

Would be curious to see the bids for these projects, and just how those costs ended up coming to be.

FYI, any time you build a project that gets into the high millions or even billions there is always a huge level of risk involved, construction, infrastructure, technology, or otherwise.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

I thought the city had to change plans and put the downtown portion above ground so that the NW line would be ready on time. If that was the case it’d be hard to call that a positive impact.

No, the above-ground line downtown was already open before the Olympics were awarded.

The first leg of the C-Train (from Anderson to 8 St W) opened in May 1981. Calgary was awarded the Olympics in September 1981.


My understanding is that they went with a surface route downtown to save money and allow them to build a longer overall route. With a downtown subway, the line likely wouldn't have gone further south than Chinook to start. Going further south pushed the C-Train into the more residential parts of the city and made it more convenient for people to use transit to commute downtown.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by getbak

The NW leg was fast-tracked for the Olympics.

I don't know where the C-Train system would be today without the Olympics, but I'm sure I wouldn't have been able to take the train to the University in the early 90s if not for the Olympics in 1988.

The NW leg was not already planned?

I dont remember it that way, which means little as well.

I can see where they may have moved construction up for it, but it was always a part of the process and would have been built regardless of the Olympics coming to Calgary or not though.

[CaptainCrunch]

Hell with the Olympics, we need to bid for Wrestlemania . . . oh we don't have the facilities to host it.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by transplant99

The NW leg was not already planned?

I dont remember it that way, which means little as well.

I can see where they may have moved construction up for it, but it was always a part of the process and would have been built regardless of the Olympics coming to Calgary or not though.

Depends on how far along in the planning process they were. The West LRT was planned a decade or more before it got reviewed in 2006 and funded in 2009. But the planning and ROWs were maintained (similar to much of the Green Line) with the assumption that something will be sent through eventually.

So the NW was definitely planned, but being 'shovel ready' may be another story. Having a catalyst like the Olympics probably made strong-arming the NIMBYs in Sunnyside who didn't want the LRT easier as well (but that is pure speculation on my part).

[getbak]

Originally Posted by transplant99

The NW leg was not already planned?

I dont remember it that way, which means little as well.

I can see where they may have moved construction up for it, but it was always a part of the process and would have been built regardless of the Olympics coming to Calgary or not though.

Yes, of course it was planned. Planned and built are two very different things.

The Fieldhouse at Foothills has been "planned" for a decade, but it's not any closer to being built than it was then.


There was originally significant opposition to the alignment of the NW leg through Sunnyside, which is one reason why the NE leg was built first. The Olympics and the need to get the C-Train to McMahon and the University was ultimately what got things moving for the NW leg. Without that push, who knows how much longer it would have been delayed?


The advantage of the Olympics is that it gives everyone a date to circle on the calendar for when things need to be done. People can't keep dragging their feet and pushing the deadlines out by another week/month/year. The disadvantage is that by having multiple large-scale construction projects happening at the same time, there's an increased competition for staff and resources, so the final cost is going to be higher for all projects.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

here is a chance for you to change my mind on this fiasco - can you summarize the infrastructure gains that we will get for the projected net cost to calgary of $2 billion?

These two posts are aligned with my reason for the Olympics to occur...

Originally Posted by transplant99

The NW leg was not already planned?

I dont remember it that way, which means little as well.

I can see where they may have moved construction up for it, but it was always a part of the process and would have been built regardless of the Olympics coming to Calgary or not though.

Originally Posted by getbak

Yes, of course it was planned. Planned and built are two very different things.

The Fieldhouse at Foothills has been "planned" for a decade, but it's not any closer to being built than it was then.


There was originally significant opposition to the alignment of the NW leg through Sunnyside, which is one reason why the NE leg was built first. The Olympics and the need to get the C-Train to McMahon and the University was ultimately what got things moving for the NW leg. Without that push, who knows how much longer it would have been delayed?


The advantage of the Olympics is that it gives everyone a date to circle on the calendar for when things need to be done. People can't keep dragging their feet and pushing the deadlines out by another week/month/year. The disadvantage is that by having multiple large-scale construction projects happening at the same time, there's an increased competition for staff and resources, so the final cost is going to be higher for all projects.

The Olympics is a catalyst to actually get things done, rather than planning for them, but never getting it built. The Fieldhouse is the biggest victim of this ordeal at the moment.

Muta went over much of what would be built or renovated to accommodate the Olympics. Off the top of my head, these are the projects that would occur from the bid report, as well what could happen from both the bid report and hypothetical reasoning. The latter would increase the costs since they aren't directly associated with the Olympics, but as I said, would be a catalyst in getting it done.

- New Arena
- BMO Centre Expansion
- New housing (affordable) in Victoria Park
- Complete Green Line build out; with spur line/people mover connection to airport
- Foothills Fieldhouse/indoor track and field venue (along with new twin hockey arena, and possibly more)
- Olympic Oval Renovation; along with UCalgary Kinesiology expansion and renovation (badly needed)
- McMahon Stadium renovation? Olympics may or may not make use of the venue, so it's questionable if it would benefit. But if it does, address another major need for the city, and could spur Banff Trail/McMahon/University Heights TOD development
- Winsport refurbishment
- Nakiska Improvements
- Canmore Nordic Centre improvements, as well potential development spur for the town of Canmore
- Possibly a commuter rail between Banff National Park and Calgary. This one is a high cost project that will probably never happen within several decades unless the Olympics come
- Other transportation infrastructure improvements (West ring road, Crowchild improvements, 8th Ave Subway, etc.)

[GGG]

The current proposal on the table requires 2.4 billion of tax payer investment.

We don't get
New Arena
Extended Greenline
Airport LRT
McMahon Reno
Commuter rail
Other transportation

All that is included in the current report is upgrades to existing facilities and a fieldhouse. You have 10 billion in unfounded items on your list.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by GGG

The current proposal on the table requires 2.4 billion of tax payer investment.

We don't get
New Arena
Extended Greenline
Airport LRT
McMahon Reno
Commuter rail
Other transportation

All that is included in the current report is upgrades to existing facilities and a fieldhouse. You have 10 billion in unfounded items on your list.

As I said, the list included projects and costs that weren't included in the proposed bid report, and was hypothetical. With or without the olympics, the arena could get built prior to 2026, and same with McMahon reno depending on CSEC appetite.

Everything else though wouldn't get built until many, many years down the road, if at all. But if the Olympics were to occur, some, if not all could be done if there is a willingness to extend funding beyond specific olympic event infrastructure.

To be honest, if we're gonna be spending billions, then it's only worth it if we get a couple things beyond olympic venues improvements. At the least full greenline and Crowchild work.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by GGG

The current proposal on the table requires 2.4 billion of tax payer investment.

We don't get
New Arena
Extended Greenline
Airport LRT
McMahon Reno
Commuter rail
Other transportation

All that is included in the current report is upgrades to existing facilities and a fieldhouse. You have 10 billion in unfounded items on your list.

Just curious how this all works, what return does Calgary get? Ticket sales? TV ad revenue? We always here about the cost of outlays, but surly their must be some money that comes in, no?

[getbak]

I don't think there's any way they can build any more of the Green Line than is already planned. As it is, the first phase from Shepard to 16th Ave won't likely be open by February 2026 (I believe they've set an open date of "sometime" in 2026, so it's a safe bet that won't be a month and a half into the year).

At best, we might see them fast track the Green Line to get it open by the end of 2025, and a spur on the Blue Line to the Airport.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Joborule

As I said, the list included projects and costs that weren't included in the proposed bid report, and was hypothetical. With or without the olympics, the arena could get built prior to 2026, and same with McMahon reno depending on CSEC appetite.

Everything else though wouldn't get built until many, many years down the road, if at all. But if the Olympics were to occur, some, if not all could be done if there is a willingness to extend funding beyond specific olympic event infrastructure.

To be honest, if we're gonna be spending billions, then it's only worth it if we get a couple things beyond olympic venues improvements. At the least full greenline and Crowchild work.

It's such a terrible way to spend money. Spend 2.6 billion on the Olympics on 1 billion in Capital improvements to convince other levels of government to spend 2-5 billion more on infrastructure.

So you spend 1.6 billion on the party and 7 or billion on infrastructure 500 million of which is of questionable value after the Olympics.

So we waste 2 billion to leverage 7? That's such bad economics. And horrible governance at the federal and provincial level.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Just curious how this all works, what return does Calgary get? Ticket sales? TV ad revenue? We always here about the cost of outlays, but surly their must be some money that comes in, no?

The 4.6 billion dollar price tag was offset by ticket sales, the portion of the ad revenue that the IOC shares, and I think the sale of the Athletes village post games. The net loss was something like 2.4-2.6 billion.

The report is on the city's website somewhere that lists everything I couldn't find the link right now though

[getbak]

Originally Posted by GGG

The report is on the city's website somewhere that lists everything I couldn't find the link right now though

OMG!WTF! posted a link to it in this thread yesterday...

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

http://www.calgary.ca/CSPS/Recreatio...20redacted.pdf

[craigwd]

Originally Posted by GGG

The 4.6 billion dollar price tag was offset by ticket sales, the portion of the ad revenue that the IOC shares, and I think the sale of the Athletes village post games. The net loss was something like 2.4-2.6 billion.

The report is on the city's website somewhere that lists everything I couldn't find the link right now though

Not to mention future revenues that come from events held after the Games.

[Freeway]

FWIW, the BIG issue for a lot of members of council is they feel they don't have the information they need to make an informed decision. A lot of the heat for the bid dying, if it comes to that, might end up falling on city admin and the people who have been bridging the gap between the Bid Exploration work (feasibility) and the Bid Corporation work (logistics). Things have been bobbled and details that some members of council want (particular, but not exclusively Druh Farrell) have been glossed over or muddied along the way.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by craigwd

Not to mention future revenues that come from events held after the Games.

There are also ongoing future maintenance and operational costs. That's why the Koreans built a 100 million dollar stadium just to blow it up any day now.