[PGT] Bolts 7 Flames 4. Flames blow a third-period lead and lose for the 6th straight game

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Mike Smith was clearly rattled after both the 3rd and 4th goals of the game were just about as awful as you'll see. For Glen to ignore this fact and leave him in there when even fans can see it playing out, is just beyond comprehension. He could have brought Rittich in to start the 3rd or shortly after the 4th goal when there was still a game to be played. He could of, at the very least called a timeout, done something. Nearly every game now there seems to be more evidence building that points squarely to coaching incompetence.

The problem with rolling out this theory is the fact we all know that if he had pulled him there would have been a line up of guys that hate Gulutzan hammering him for gutting the psyche of the team by embarrassing the team's MPV.

And I get that.

People that have moved on from this coach get jaded and he can't really win, we've all been there with issues or people in their lives.

But lets stop trying to convince the masses that it's anything else.

[nemanja2306]

And the excuses keep on coming.

Let's forget that we're pretty much talking about the same leadership core that was lauded as one of the most hardworking teams with their never say die and never give up attitude under Hartley - Monahan, Gaudreau, Brodie, Giordano, Backlund, Stajan, Ferland. Since then we've added - Brouwer (for the "leadership", has a Cup), Frolik (also has a SC win, praised for his mentorship and work with prospects in WPG), Hamonic (a steady, top 4 defenceman (a horrible start aside), Hamilton (a young, top pairing defenceman), Tkachuk and Smith.

We've lost guys like Russell, Englelland (the only one you could say was a leader), Wideman, Colborne, Ramo, Hiller and Hudler.

In terms of pure talent, the roster we have today is 10x better than the one in 14-15. As for leadership, either:

1) The core we had in 14/15 was also weak but Hartley manged to get them to play over their head and credit to Hartley;

2) The GM COMPLETELY misjudged the character of the players he brought in, which means he should be fired immediately, especially if he's preaching hard work and character; OR

3) Glen Gulutzan is a terrible coach who is completely unable to motivate his players and do any in-game adjustments.

I pick #3.

But no, let's keep defending a clueless, stubborn ...... who most likely will never find another NHL HC job after this one. Who failed with Dallas and who is now failing with the Flames. I could at least understand it if we're talking about a coach who was successful in the past, who has shown he can lead a team, but nope... As far as we know, based on what he has shown so far, this is the best he can do. If you're satisfied with mediocrity and inconsistency, well, Glen is your man.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by chummer

^^Just because he was looking at the bench doesn't mean he wanted to be pulled, it's a natural reaction after having a bad game and letting in that terrible goal. You're assuming that's why Smith was pissed? That's quite a reach. Rittich let in an equally bad goal, so there goes that argument.

That's not the way it played out, except maybe in your mind.

I guess it played out in the minds of the broadcasters as well, seeing as they mentioned Smith was looking for the hook. Sorry, I've seen enough goaltenders looking for the hook to recognized the situation. You don't need to "Mario Tremblay" the goaltender.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by colbym72

FWIW......Elliott Friedman thinks the players are mentally fragile and thinks Gulutzan the last two years has done a tremendous job keeping this group together

That's interesting because before GG came here, I wouldn't have characterized this team as mentally fragile. I've also never seen them more mentally fragile than I have right now.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by New Era

I guess it played out in the minds of the broadcasters as well, seeing as they mentioned Smith was looking for the hook. Sorry, I've seen enough goaltenders looking for the hook to recognized the situation. You don't need to "Mario Tremblay" the goaltender.

This may be the single silliest thing I've seen argued about in some time.

Good to know that you've had the experience to know this from your living room though. Thanks for telling us you know better.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

That's interesting because before GG came here, I wouldn't have characterized this team as mentally fragile. I've also never seen them more mentally fragile than I have right now.

Really? Other than that fluke comeback season they have looked fragile. Hartley's last year any time a weak goal went in, they imploded.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Murph

OR...

After the 4th goal, you recognize that a mentally fragile team has just blown a third period lead for a SIXTH straight game and that now might be a good time to call a timeout to re-focus. An OBVIOUS coaching opportunity was missed.

And anyone who thinks that leaving Smith in after the 5th goal was a good idea, well...

I'd have pulled him after 5, because it was the worst goal. I understand why he didn't though. Smith had made a bunch of potentially game saving saves early on. GG maybe thinks he is going to show faith in his star goalie. But I wouldn't have done it.

I do think the "look to the bench" is overanalyzed. I think it's just as likely he was looking because he was afraid he'd be pulled as opposed to wanting to be. Or maybe he was just looking over there to see if the guys were mad at him.

But a timeout after the 4th? They'd just had a 15 minute timeout. I think calling a timeout 10 seconds in would look like a panic move and make the team even more fragile.

What you need in that situation is for veteran guys like Gio and the Backlund line to step up and get everyone going strong again. And, as a matter of fact, I thought they had a decent pushback. And then the bad goal happened. As I said, I'd have pulled him then (it's funny - the 6th goal was the least on Smith IMO).

[colbym72]

Originally Posted by Bingo

This may be the single silliest thing I've seen argued about in some time.

Good to know that you've had the experience to know this from your living room though. Thanks for telling us you know better.

It could have been anything. He could have been looking to get pulled. He could have been looking to see if he was going to get pulled but didn't want to. We don't know. In the end, I think Gulutzan developed a long leash for Smith and thought he would let him play through it. It didn't work. Smith needs to be better.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by New Era

I guess it played out in the minds of the broadcasters as well, seeing as they mentioned Smith was looking for the hook. Sorry, I've seen enough goaltenders looking for the hook to recognized the situation. You don't need to "Mario Tremblay" the goaltender.

That's not what Hrudey actually said. He said "you know what he's expecting". Not asking for it, necessarily.

[chummer]

Originally Posted by New Era

I guess it played out in the minds of the broadcasters as well, seeing as they mentioned Smith was looking for the hook. Sorry, I've seen enough goaltenders looking for the hook to recognized the situation. You don't need to "Mario Tremblay" the goaltender.

I heard them say that as well. He might have been expecting it, but I highly doubt he wanted to be pulled.

This is not even close to the Patrick Roy incident.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Really? Other than that fluke comeback season they have looked fragile. Hartley's last year any time a weak goal went in, they imploded.

2 out of 3 seasons under Hartley the team finished exactly where it should have finished. It just wasn't a good team. So if they were a mentally weak team, it didn't appear to affect the standings negatively much.

[colbym72]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I'd have pulled him after 5, because it was the worst goal. I understand why he didn't though. Smith had made a bunch of potentially game saving saves early on. GG maybe thinks he is going to show faith in his star goalie. But I wouldn't have done it.

I do think the "look to the bench" is overanalyzed. I think it's just as likely he was looking because he was afraid he'd be pulled as opposed to wanting to be. Or maybe he was just looking over there to see if the guys were mad at him.

But a timeout after the 4th? They'd just had a 15 minute timeout. I think calling a timeout 10 seconds in would look like a panic move and make the team even more fragile.

What you need in that situation is for veteran guys like Gio and the Backlund line to step up and get everyone going strong again. And, as a matter of fact, I thought they had a decent pushback. And then the bad goal happened. As I said, I'd have pulled him then (it's funny - the 6th goal was the least on Smith IMO).

Yeah I agree with most of what you said here. Without knowing the guys, I wonder what the leadership on ice/during the game. You hear amazing things about Gio and some of these guys off the ice or in the room, but I wonder who the player is (if there is one) that is most vocal and shows leadership. The eye test looks like Tkachuk. I wonder what Monahan brings with his A

[Jiri Hrdina]

I don't think Smith every wants to get pulled. The dude is uber competitive. He wants to be out there every minute of every game.
Doesn't mean he should be, but I don't agree with any notion that he was "wanting to be pulled". Expecting it? Maybe. Wanting it? No way. Not that guy.

[colbym72]

I also think I remember Derek Wills saying on the radio that Smith always asks to get the start after a loss as well because of how competitive he is. I bet he has a great game Saturday

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by RoughRiderRowdy

What do you mean by driveby nonsense? Give your head a shake good teams dont play like this at home

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...ticle37588259/

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by colbym72

Yeah I agree with most of what you said here. Without knowing the guys, I wonder what the leadership on ice/during the game. You hear amazing things about Gio and some of these guys off the ice or in the room, but I wonder who the player is (if there is one) that is most vocal and shows leadership. The eye test looks like Tkachuk. I wonder what Monahan brings with his A

Frankly, I'm not sure how much can even be put on team leadership. The only goal I thought showed a sag was the 6th, where the coverage collapsed. I thought they pushed back pretty well after Tampa scored 3,4, and 5. And they finished well despite being right out of it.

From a hockey standpoint, the Flames' skaters were pretty darn good. Like the Vegas game, this one is just hard to analyze after the fact. Name a line that had a bad night. Not the fourth (especially Lazar and Stajan). The first line was fine - they had plenty of chances. The second line was good considering their assignment. People were praising Brouwer all night so not the third, aside from Bennett taking a penalty right off the bat. The D did a credible job, aside from, IMO Stone and Kulak, who were trapped a few times.

The PK did well enough - a garbage goal went in, but they killed an almost 2 minute 5 on 3. The PP actually scored and looked pretty good.

[R2theJ]

This is beyond frustrating to watch...
1.) Too many giveaways on the half boards in our own zone - the forwards are constantly losing the battle here or just coughing-up the puck to the other team - you don't get beaten to the puck in your own zone - especially when you are closer to it than the opposition. Pretty simple hockey...
2.) this team cannot consistently shoot the puck - players are either missing the net or hitting the goalie square in the chest - this is on the players and coaches to get better - means practicing and accountability
3.) Powerplay is just atrocious - no creativity - same thing over and over. Switch it up. Get Brouwer off the PP. Move Stone to the point maybe for the bomb - pretty clear that Cameron has no clue and needs to go. The coaching staff is missing way too many important things and clearly is over their heads here...
4.) Ferland has had a pretty good season scoring, but he also needs to create space for Johnny if he is on the top line - that means being physical, and kicking the crap out of guys that take liberties on Gaudreau - ie Koonitz last night when he cross-checked Johhny face-first into the boards. Whether at the time it happened (not sure he was on the ice) or the next opportunity. This team needs more grit and "Give a F#*k Factor" - yes Dougie that means you too... 6'5" 230lb puffter. Make it miserable to come play in the 'Dome...
5.) Love Bennett - yes he makes mistakes but give this kid a real chance to be a top line player - imaging him on the top line! Yeah it might be his off wing but this kid has the tools and the mean streak to be ridiculous. He has been misused so badly by GG its almost comical. Great way to waste this franchise's highest ever drafted player. Tkachuk has been given far more opportunity and is thriving because of it. Yes, some of it is on Bennett but at least give him the same opportunity. We will never know if we don't give it a shot.
6.) Last point I'm gonna throw out there - a loosing record at home is unacceptable - this comes down to preparation, motivation and the previously mentioned "GaFF" - clearly this team has some issues at home - whether its on the ice or off-ice issues (hello Cowboys!) - but it is time for the management and coaches to step up and end this embarrassment and create structure and accountability. Players are paid millions and that salary comes with responsibilities and expectations. Maybe shut down the party time a degree or two and make the players understand that they need to be accountable to the team, each other and the fans...

[colbym72]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Frankly, I'm not sure how much can even be put on team leadership. The only goal I thought showed a sag was the 6th, where the coverage collapsed. I thought they pushed back pretty well after Tampa scored 3,4, and 5. And they finished well despite being right out of it.

From a hockey standpoint, the Flames' skaters were pretty darn good. Like the Vegas game, this one is just hard to analyze after the fact. Name a line that had a bad night. Not the fourth (especially Lazar and Stajan). The first line was fine - they had plenty of chances. The second line was good considering their assignment. People were praising Brouwer all night so not the third, aside from Bennett taking a penalty right off the bat. The D did a credible job, aside from, IMO Stone and Kulak, who were trapped a few times.

The PK did well enough - a garbage goal went in, but they killed an almost 2 minute 5 on 3. The PP actually scored and looked pretty good.

Yeah I just mean in general when things get tough, who is the player that leads the team. Part of that is on the coaches too. My thoughts on last nights game are pretty well documented. Smith makes a few saves and we are happy today

[colbym72]

Originally Posted by R2theJ

This is beyond frustrating to watch...
1.) Too many giveaways on the half boards in our own zone - the forwards are constantly losing the battle here or just coughing-up the puck to the other team - you don't get beaten to the puck in your own zone - especially when you are closer to it than the opposition. Pretty simple hockey...
2.) this team cannot consistently shoot the puck - players are either missing the net or hitting the goalie square in the chest - this is on the players and coaches to get better - means practicing and accountability
3.) Powerplay is just atrocious - no creativity - same thing over and over. Switch it up. Get Brouwer off the PP. Move Stone to the point maybe for the bomb - pretty clear that Cameron has no clue and needs to go. The coaching staff is missing way too many important things and clearly is over their heads here...
4.) Ferland has had a pretty good season scoring, but he also needs to create space for Johnny if he is on the top line - that means being physical, and kicking the crap out of guys that take liberties on Gaudreau - ie Koonitz last night when he cross-checked Johhny face-first into the boards. Whether at the time it happened (not sure he was on the ice) or the next opportunity. This team needs more grit and "Give a F#*k Factor" - yes Dougie that means you too... 6'5" 230lb puffter. Make it miserable to come play in the 'Dome...
5.) Love Bennett - yes he makes mistakes but give this kid a real chance to be a top line player - imaging him on the top line! Yeah it might be his off wing but this kid has the tools and the mean streak to be ridiculous. He has been misused so badly by GG its almost comical. Great way to waste this franchise's highest ever drafted player. Tkachuk has been given far more opportunity and is thriving because of it. Yes, some of it is on Bennett but at least give him the same opportunity. We will never know if we don't give it a shot.
6.) Last point I'm gonna throw out there - a loosing record at home is unacceptable - this comes down to preparation, motivation and the previously mentioned "GaFF" - clearly this team has some issues at home - whether its on the ice or off-ice issues (hello Cowboys!) - but it is time for the management and coaches to step up and end this embarrassment and create structure and accountability. Players are paid millions and that salary comes with responsibilities and expectations. Maybe shut down the party time a degree or two and make the players understand that they need to be accountable to the team, each other and the fans...

Who are you taking off the first line? One of the two twenty goal scorers? Or the leading point scorer?

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by colbym72

What? No way. They are 10 points out and basically eliminated. Its actually crazy that they lost 6 in a row and are still very in reach for a playoff spot. Maybe I am a fool for being positive and not saying "^&@#&*@^&* I am done with this &*&*)(& team.......until the next win streak"

You think about the playoff battle. I'm going to stew on player ruination