[PGT] Flames beat Kings 4-3 in OT

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

In what way has he been better? Because we have won 3 in a row? In which he has had zero contribution? Or because he finally stuck up for a teammate?

Sometimes a win streak makes people forgive bad play by individual players or be blinded by it but Brouwer has been average to down right awful in every game so far. Just like he was last season.

What do you expect from him? Point production? That ship sailed last year. At this point he is a bottom 6 RWer, and he's doing a fine job at it. If you are expecting something else from him, I don't know what to tell you.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

What do you expect from him? Point production? That ship sailed last year. At this point he is a bottom 6 RWer, and he's doing a fine job at it. If you are expecting something else from him, I don't know what to tell you.

Not expecting anything did you read the post I replied to? And then my post? He hasn't been better this season. Same old Brouwer and he isn't doing a "fine job". The eye test says he is awful and the advanced stats confirm it.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Interesting speculation

@TSNSimmer: Give Jagr 10 games. If he's not feeling it. I think he steps away. @TSN1200

Wouldn't totally surprise me, because Jagr certainly looked like a 45 year old trying to play in the NHL last night. Even though he was fine once he had the puck in the offensive zone. I do expect him to get better in the upcoming games.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Sometimes people have blinders on and can't be rational about a subject. If you don't think there is a difference in his game from last year year then I don't know if it is worth a debate.

Tell me the difference. What about Brouwer have you liked this season? That he stood up for a teammate? If that's it then great I agree. Brouwer usually tucks his tail and goes to the bench.

It isn't worth the debate because you can't show he's been better. Have his advanced stats been better this season? More points? What has he done better? He's the same old terrible player but with win streaks fans are more forgiving of individual performances.

[Love]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Tell me the difference. What about Brouwer have you liked this season? That he stood up for a teammate? If that's it then great I agree. Brouwer usually tucks his tail and goes to the bench.

It isn't worth the debate because you can't show he's been better. Have his advanced stats been better this season? More points? What has he done better? He's the same old terrible player but with win streaks fans are more forgiving of individual performances.

He had a pretty dominant shift in the first yesterday where he and his line where protecting the puck and cycling like madmen. He's been solid the past two games and showing heart and sticking up for his captain was just the cherry on top.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Tell me the difference. What about Brouwer have you liked this season? That he stood up for a teammate? If that's it then great I agree. Brouwer usually tucks his tail and goes to the bench.

It isn't worth the debate because you can't show he's been better. Have his advanced stats been better this season? More points? What has he done better? He's the same old terrible player but with win streaks fans are more forgiving of individual performances.

The first two games weren't very good, but credit him for doing well against the California teams. We're not forgiving him because we're winning, we're accepting his new role on the team.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Love

He had a pretty dominant shift in the first yesterday where he and his line where protecting the puck and cycling like madmen. He's been solid the past two games and showing heart and sticking up for his captain was just the cherry on top.

And he had some good shifts last season. Still the same old Brouwer of last year until he proves otherwise.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

In what way has he been better? Because we have won 3 in a row? In which he has had zero contribution? Or because he finally stuck up for a teammate?

Sometimes a win streak makes people forgive bad play by individual players or be blinded by it but Brouwer has been average to down right awful in every game so far. Just like he was last season.

In addition to the first shift and standing up for teammates, he made several really good defensive plays, got the puck out fairly effectively, and did good work on the PK. IMO he did those things against Anaheim as well.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Interesting speculation

@TSNSimmer: Give Jagr 10 games. If he's not feeling it. I think he steps away. @TSN1200

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Dunno where this thought process of his is coming from.

Jagr was still serviceable on the 3rd line even while sucking wind on the bench all game, ending up a -1, and after blowing a tire in his first shift. I also believe his linemates Bennett and Versteeg were the only two players above 50% possession that game.

Jaromir should look better as he gets more into game shape, not the other way around.

Sounds like pure speculation, but I think what he is getting at is that Jagr has extremely high standards set for himself. Even if he is a serviceable 3rd liner, that might be enough slippage for him to walk away. I could see it working out that way, but who knows. It was that sucking wind on the bench that had me wondering...

[Robbob]

He has had a number of strong shifts hemming the other team in their zone. I can remember a few instances where plays he has made that extended the cycle and allowed for more pressure. I think he has been doing a good job on the PK. His CF% in 5v5-close was 57% last game, 63.2% against Anaheim. Isn't that a good thing?

[fotiou22]

Weird question. Was there a moment last night where Jagr pushed Bartowski from behind, trying to give him more speed entering the zone? Is there any video? Did I dream it?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Robbob

He has had a number of strong shifts hemming the other team in their zone. I can remember a few instances where plays he has made that extended the cycle and allowed for more pressure. I think he has been doing a good job on the PK. His CF% in 5v5-close was 57% last game, 63.2% against Anaheim. Isn't that a good thing?

Which is effective fourth line play.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Interesting speculation

@TSNSimmer: Give Jagr 10 games. If he's not feeling it. I think he steps away. @TSN1200

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Dunno where this thought process of his is coming from...

I would guess that this speculation is based solely on Jagr's appearance on the bench during yesterday's game. No one should be surprised that he looked gassed after missing a full summer of training and all of training camp. I am sure Jagr is not surprised by how yesterday went.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Sometimes people have blinders on and can't be rational about a subject. If you don't think there is a difference in his game from last year year then I don't know if it is worth a debate.

Not sure if that poster can be rational about any subject.

[Scornfire]

Originally Posted by fotiou22

Weird question. Was there a moment last night where Jagr pushed Bartowski from behind, trying to give him more speed entering the zone? Is there any video? Did I dream it?

It was on pretty much every highlight package. He pushed Bart right before he made that great pokecheck coming back on that 2 on 0

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Not sure if that poster can be rational about any subject.

Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they're not being rational. For someone who claims to be a "draft watcher" you're sure wrong about a lot of prospects and always the first one to put down differing opinions of yours with personal insults. Brouwer is terrible, is this really news? Or so ground breaking that I'm not being rational?

[sa226]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Interesting speculation

@TSNSimmer: Give Jagr 10 games. If he's not feeling it. I think he steps away. @TSN1200

Sounds like a guy thinking out loud. On Twitter.

But not entirely baseless. The narrative surrounding Jagr has been missed camp, needs time, doesn't feel great, 45 etc etc etc.

To me its a combination of basically a 45 year old legend going through his own little training camp in the National spotlight. Having to answer questions everyday about how he's feeling. Add to that his contract bonus structure and everything else and you have the basis for that prediction.

It didn't help that last night's game had the intensity of a game in April, not October.

For the record I think he will be just fine.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

All I can add was last night I thought Brouwer was skating and was involved. There were a lot of games last season where he was really invisible but last night I noticed him quite a bit......in a good way. If he skates and plays with a bit of sandpaper that will be a big improvement from last year. Yes, no goals, but we really don't need him to score a ton on the 4th line, just go out and be involved.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

All I can add was last night I thought Brouwer was skating and was involved. There were a lot of games last season where he was really invisible but last night I noticed him quite a bit......in a good way. If he skates and plays with a bit of sandpaper that will be a big improvement from last year. Yes, no goals, but we really don't need him to score a ton on the 4th line, just go out and be involved.

Agreed but last season he had a few good games sprinkled in every now and then as well and would always fall back on old habits. I'm not buying he's a different player when we have the first 7 or 8 periods where he looked bad and then a couple where he got a little involved.

I feel he a disappointed us so much that him even skating hard is seen as such a positive when it should be a given for a player in his role.

[Lanny_McDonald]

I think Jagr is here for the year. No way he steps away after 10 games, not when he is so close to the game played record. I think that is wishful thinking on someone's part. What I could see is Jagr getting spot duty, and someone else in the lineup taking it in the pants as a result. I think the Flames want Jankowski in the lineup, but hope Jagr can have a positive influence on guys like Bennett, Ferland, Tkachuk, and the aforementioned Jankowski. Someone else may lose their spot and Jankowski gets recalled, getting double duty on the 4th line, and stepping in for Jagr when he has to miss a shift.

My comments on last nights game, intensity is still a challenge. Flames came out like gang busters and completely owned the first. Then they took the foot off the peddle and let the Kings slowly take over. I hate seeing that stuff. That's where the coach needs to kick some butts and keep them focused. One guy that I still am not happy with in the lineup is TJ Brodie. I know this won't be popular, but he gets beat wide way too often, and he's soft as a kitten's coat. Love him when he gets the puck an wheels, but the rest of his game is well below average. He need to pick up his game or I wouldn't be disappointed to see him moved in a larger package for a RW and a 2nd pair defender than can provide a little more muscle. You can't rely on Mike Smith to bail this team out they way he has to open the season. Bennett also needs to get his beard out of his ass and start showing why he was drafted 4th overall. The Flames need him to step up. That, or they have to focus on getting Backlund extended. Bennett drives that decision.