2017-18 Toronto Raptors and General NBA Thread

[Skaloper]

I don't normally watch basketball and maybe this is why ...

[Hey Connor, It's Mess]

I've seen this movie before.

[The Big Chill]

I don't normally like complaining about reffing, but it made a huge difference in the 4th today. The Poeltl foul for using his body on an offensive rebound, DeRozan getting crushed on a layup with no call, and Lowry getting hit from behind on a layup with no call. All 3 happened within a couple minutes, and all were blatantly the wrong call. That makes a massive difference in a tight game.

We still obviously have to be better. We reverted to ISO ball in Washington. Not a surprise to have a setback when implementing a new offense, but we need to get back to ball movement and taking care of the ball.

[Beninho]

This core is not good enough. Lowry can’t even dribble past Gortat without falling. Why Ibaka was on the court at the end is insane. Why JV was not in the game is nuts, zero ball movement and Derozan and Lowry trying to play hero ball. Awful coaching. Ibaka makes 20 million a year, one of the worst signings this teams made. Refs were awful which isn’t the least bit surprising but the raptors lost this game because of awful coaching and players choking. CJ Miles fits right in with the chokers on this team as well.

[The Big Chill]

Originally Posted by Beninho

This core is not good enough. Lowry can’t even dribble past Gortat without falling. Why Ibaka was on the court at the end is insane. Why JV was not in the game is nuts, zero ball movement and Derozan and Lowry trying to play hero ball. Awful coaching

JV wasn't in because he can't defend the pick and roll.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

JV wasn't in because he can't defend the pick and roll.

The entire raptors team has no idea how to defend the pick and roll vs wall. This team has zero great defenders, it’s why when they come up against an elite player they get absolutely ripped apart. Raptors have zero grit or toughness on defense and allowed Wall to do whatever he wanted. Even if they win this series they are just delaying the inevitable. Should of blown this team up last year

[The Big Chill]

Originally Posted by Beninho

The entire raptors team has no idea how to defend the pick and roll vs wall. This team has zero great defenders, it’s why when they come up against an elite player they get absolutely ripped apart. Raptors have zero grit or toughness on defense and allowed Wall to do whatever he wanted. Even if they win this series they are just delaying the inevitable. Should of blown this team up last year

I disagree. This team was a top 5 defensive team in the regular season. They were also the best Raptors team ever assembled. The changed the way they played on offense this year and it made us better. They just reverted back to the old way these last 2 games when they faced some adversity. That's not really a huge surprise. They just need to re-commit to ball movement offense and they'll be fine.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

I disagree. This team was a top 5 defensive team in the regular season. They were also the best Raptors team ever assembled. The changed the way they played on offense this year and it made us better. They just reverted back to the old way these last 2 games when they faced some adversity. That's not really a huge surprise. They just need to re-commit to ball movement offense and they'll be fine.

Season was fools gold in my opinion. Without Van Vleet the second unit isn’t as as lethal and Lowry has had another regressive season. Lowry isn’t a star anymore and his decision making has been awful all year. They have zero killer instinct and can’t win away from home. Even if they win this series they are delaying the inevitable.

[flamingreen]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Season was fools gold in my opinion. Without Van Vleet the second unit isn’t as as lethal and Lowry has had another regressive season. Lowry isn’t a star anymore and his decision making has been awful all year. They have zero killer instinct and can’t win away from home. Even if they win this series they are delaying the inevitable.

They had the fourth best away record in the league. Your being hyperbolic.

[Machiavelli]

Recency bias

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by flamingreen

They had the fourth best away record in the league. Your being hyperbolic.

Record vs the Cavs and Golden State? This team isn’t a real contending team. They are not the 04 pistons, contending teams don’t forget how to play offense as much as the raptors do. Defense has also been awful since the all star break. Casey’s willingness to use Ibaka down the stretch will continue to kill this team, as will Lowry forgetting how to run an offense.

[Senator Clay Davis]

If the first week of the playoffs have shown us anything, it's that there are only two contenders that will decide the champions: The Warriors, and Curry and Durant's ACLs. Cavs, Raptors, Rockets, doesn't matter. They have no chance straight up and it's a waste of time considering them having a legit shot. LeBron to the Sixers will add something new next year, but for now it's playing out the string. East in particular is pathetic, just cancel the conference already.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

If the first week of the playoffs have shown us anything, it's that there are only two contenders that will decide the champions: The Warriors, and Curry and Durant's ACLs. Cavs, Raptors, Rockets, doesn't matter. They have no chance straight up and it's a waste of time considering them having a legit shot. LeBron to the Sixers will add something new next year, but for now it's playing out the string. East in particular is pathetic, just cancel the conference already.

I have to agree...the NBA playoffs are kinda a joke

What is the point of getting all excited when AT BEST you get your ass kicked in the finals. What's the point?

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I have to agree...the NBA playoffs are kinda a joke

What is the point of getting all excited when AT BEST you get your ass kicked in the finals. What's the point?

There’s no point, which is why the raptors should blow up their current core and begin building for the future. Their supposed change in philosophy will still see them lose at the end of the day. Raptors have been unable to land a 3rd star, while Lowry has not been star-like for quite some time. They saddled themselves with TWO boat anchor contracts by re-signing Ibaka and Powell and may even not be able to re-sign Van Vleet because of it. Part of me hopes they lose this series so they can properly build a team with several elite peices. They lucked into a very good team but they have not taken the next step and with this current core I just don’t see them ever being able to get there without a massive signing. Trading for and then re-signing Ibaka was just being desperate for that other major peice. Lebron owns the raptors and even with that sorry supporting cast he has in Cleveland he would still own them again. Raptors have no one that can guard other elite players. Look at how they have handled Wall, no proper game plan, no proper double teams, they just back up and let him do what he wants. These last two games are extremely telling and show why this team isn’t even close to a title. The only chance is if they magically trade for Kawhi but they won’t. You can’t have your two best players be this ineffective defensively. Lowry is so ####ing slow now, Wall must be laughing when he gets to go 1 on 1 with him.

[Jason14h]

Double Post

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Beninho

There’s no point, which is why the raptors should blow up their current core and begin building for the future. Their supposed change in philosophy will still see them lose at the end of the day. Raptors have been unable to land a 3rd star, while Lowry has not been star-like for quite some time. They saddled themselves with TWO boat anchor contracts by re-signing Ibaka and Powell and may even not be able to re-sign Van Vleet because of it. Part of me hopes they lose this series so they can properly build a team with several elite peices. They lucked into a very good team but they have not taken the next step and with this current core I just don’t see them ever being able to get there without a massive signing. Trading for and then re-signing Ibaka was just being desperate for that other major peice. Lebron owns the raptors and even with that sorry supporting cast he has in Cleveland he would still own them again. Raptors have no one that can guard other elite players. Look at how they have handled Wall, no proper game plan, no proper double teams, they just back up and let him do what he wants. These last two games are extremely telling and show why this team isn’t even close to a title. The only chance is if they magically trade for Kawhi but they won’t. You can’t have your two best players be this ineffective defensively. Lowry is so ####ing slow now, Wall must be laughing when he gets to go 1 on 1 with him.

Blow up the team that finished first in the conference? Yeah good plan.

With so many teams tanking, you could tank and still be 5 years out from being exactly where we are now. Where do you think we can just get 'several' elite pieces?

The series is 2-2. We have home court where we don't loose. Let's not act like the season is over. Heck Cleveland and Boston are also 2-2.

The Raptors could easily get through the East this year, even after dropping these 2 games.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Blow up the team that finished first in the conference? Yeah good plan.

With so many teams tanking, you could tank and still be 5 years out from being exactly where we are now. Where do you think we can just get 'several' elite pieces?

The series is 2-2. We have home court where we don't loose. Let's not act like the season is over. Heck Cleveland and Boston are also 2-2.

The Raptors could easily get through the East this year, even after dropping these 2 games.

C’mon, you know this team will not get to the finals. Lowry could not dribble past Gortat and we expect him to help carry this team? Sorry don’t see it. Lebron is gonna tear the raptors ass up per usual if they get through this series. 1 seeds don’t let an 8 seed bully them

You get those peices by rebuilding properly

[Senator Clay Davis]

Well they definitely did not luck into a good team, that's incredibly insulting to Masai and the job he has done. And in fact that's what makes blowing it up so hard right now, even if they traded DeRozan, Lowry and Ibaka for only draft picks, the remaining players will make up a team that is still going to be good enough to challenge for a playoff spot in the East. So you'd have to nuke the roster in an almost unprecedented fashion. They are one of the top five teams in the NBA, the problem with that is the team at #1 just happens to essentially be playing another sport. Which is a reminder of how Durant ruined everything.

[octothorp]

I'm surprised we still haven't seen Anunoby in late game scenarios. I honestly thought Casey was saving him for those situations, but apparently not. I really want a Lowry/DeRozan/Wright/Anunoby + 1 big lineup. Top two offensive players, plus the top on-ball and off ball defenders.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Beninho

C’mon, you know this team will not get to the finals. Lowry could not dribble past Gortat and we expect him to help carry this team? Sorry don’t see it. Lebron is gonna tear the raptors ass up per usual if they get through this series. 1 seeds don’t let an 8 seed bully them

You get those peices by rebuilding properly

Cleveland may not get by Indiana, and if they do for once they will be tired. Love look severally injured . But the point remains , you can’t take the 3rd best team and nuke them to the ground and tank for 3-4 years hoping to win the lottery and get a star or two.

Plus the way they set up their contracts their basically can start fresh in 2 years with no one signed past then