[News] Official expansion alignment, expansion draft rules, and 2017 entry draft rules

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Bear

Acquiring MAF, or any goalie for that matter, doesn't impact the protection status of Ferland / Lazar. Teams can protect 7F, 3D and 1G (OR 4-4-1).

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

If Calgary acquires MAF from Pittsburgh, they won't need to expose Ferland or Lazar. (although I could see Lazar being part of the package). The Flames have a protection spot available for a goalie.

It is complicated, especially given that a team needs to have an eligible guy exposed. For that reason, I think the Flames end up making a deal with Vegas, which might seem more costly, but it avoids these other complications in making a deal with the other teams.

Whoops, you guys are right. We currently have an open protection slot for a goalie, which makes Calgary one of (what has to be) a very small group of teams able to deal ahead of the exp-draft.

[HitterD]

Nm

[HitterD]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

To put a Calgary slant on the MAF question...

The cost for the Flames to acquire MAF from Pittsburgh will be some combination of draft picks and players that were going to be unprotected anyway. PLUS losing either Ferland or Lazar to Vegas (as they'll have to expose one of them to protect MAF).

The cost to acquire MAF from Vegas will be... who knows? It's also worth mentioning that we'll probably be trying to deal with them to take Brouwer off our hands in the draft too.

This whole thing is so ridiculously (yet awesomely) complicated.

Edit - what they said above. I'm slow

[Lord Carnage]

I'm starting to wonder if the Flames may do a smaller trade for a protect goalie...

I originally had them making a play for Grubauer, but instead maybe they make a move to pick up Pickard from Colorado. He's the only interesting piece from that team in the expansion draft, so Colorado would rather get something for him instead of losing him for nothing.

Of course that only makes sense if they have a deal in place for another goalie with LV for after the draft... maybe a Fleury/Smith, or maybe a Grubauer/Raanta.

I'd like to think though that they only go that route if they are thinking Fleury type as having a goalie tandem of Grubauer or Raanta with Pickard seems a little risky...???

[dammage79]

I'm fully prepared for one of Mike Smith, Kari Lehtonen or Steve Mason to be the Flames numero uno goalie after Canada Day.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I'm fully prepared for one of Mike Smith, Kari Lehtonen or Steve Mason to be the Flames numero uno goalie after Canada Day.

So in other words the same or worse than last season? Those three would have to represent the very last resort for Treliving if he can't swing a trade for anyone and Elliott is no longer available. Also I believe Niemi will probably be the goaltender that the Stars buy out.

[You Need a Thneed]

The interesting part in all of this is, let's say if Calgary had their eyes on Raanta - they can essentially be negotiating even now with both the Rangers and Vegas for his rights, to get the best deal.

There's no reason why the Flames can't have a (tentative) trade deal in place with Vegas for a player that hasn't even been officially picked yet.

[Flash Walken]

Does someone want to recap who the flames are likely to expose in the expansion draft?

I've lost track myself in all this excitement

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Does someone want to recap who the flames are likely to expose in the expansion draft?

I've lost track myself in all this excitement

From a different thread:

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Here is the Flames expansion lists from CapFriendly

Check marked is who I think will be protected.

UFA's can't be selected in the draft, but Vegas can try to sign any of them during their exclusive window, but can only sign one during the window. If they do sign one that counts as their selection from us.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

The price will be higher to acquire him from Vegas.

Pitts would just be trying to get as much as possible before losing him, and the market will be incredibly small as anyone acquiring MAF would then have to use a protection slot on him. Pitts will have to take pretty much whatever's offered to them.

Whereas Vegas will be dealing to a much larger market, and won't be as desperate as Pitts to just get anything in return. It'll be post-expansion draft, so they'll have pretty specific things they'll be looking for at that time.

Not quite right. As Getback posted earlier, Pittsburgh will only deal Fleury if the return is at least equal to or higher than the player that Pittsburgh would then end up losing in the expansion draft in lieu of Fleury. They will still have some attractive pieces up for grabs beyond Fleury, so the price to acquire Fleury will at least be equal to or greater than their next most attractive asset.

The only way the price on Fleury is lowered is if he doesn't agree to waive. Then Pittsburgh can deal him to a team that is not named in his no trade clause, or try to have him waive for a particular team that is not on that trade clause other than Vegas (as him refusing to waive for Vegas in particular for this situation).

Pittsburgh would then be willing to basically get 'whatever they could' rather than buy-out Fleury, so that they do not lose Murray in the expansion draft. This is an unlikely scenario, however, since numerous reports have Fleury agree to waive and go to Vegas.

It would probably be cheaper to acquire him directly from Vegas. Why?

The Penguins would tack on the cost of finding another goalie that meets the expansion criteria in order to have a goalie available for the expansion draft. I do not believe that they have another goalie in the system that meets this criteria. That at bare minimum is an added cost to the acquisition price.

Vegas is also more than likely going to draft more goalies than they need. McPhee has stated that they are intent on drafting the highest asset value from most (if not all) teams. Treliving has also stated that he expects Vegas to select more goalies than they need. A surplus of goalies should mean that the price goes down a bit.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Vegas is also more than likely going to draft more goalies than they need. McPhee has stated that they are intent on drafting the highest asset value from most (if not all) teams. Treliving has also stated that he expects Vegas to select more goalies than they need. A surplus of goalies should mean that the price goes down a bit.

Goalies are low value assets though if we are talking about trade value.

In terms of value it goes:

Centre/Defence
Winger
Goalie

If I'm Vegas I'm maxing out on defencemen in the draft.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

So in other words the same or worse than last season? Those three would have to represent the very last resort for Treliving if he can't swing a trade for anyone and Elliott is no longer available. Also I believe Niemi will probably be the goaltender that the Stars buy out.

Both Mason and Smith are better than what we had last year. And they played on worse teams. Lehtonen was bad on a shockingly bad Dallas team. Their D had more holes than Swiss cheese. That's not to say the goal tending was hung out to dry either. All I am saying is, is that I am prepared to see some thrift shopping on goal tending. There's not enough ammo to spend on 4 key spots. And if you can acquire slightly better goal tending without selling the farm, I think that's what we will see.

Also depending on who LV takes in the expansion draft, there is going to be another spot to fill which the team may not want to fill from within.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Goalies are low value assets though if we are talking about trade value.

In terms of value it goes:

Centre/Defence
Winger
Goalie

If I'm Vegas I'm maxing out on defencemen in the draft.

I agree, but to a point.

There are going to be teams that will only have tweener defencemen available. Take Calgary for instance. The best defencemen available will be Kulak (unless Bartkowski is viewed as a better option - not by me anyways). Definitely would be worth a gamble on, but the market isn't really strong for defencemen of this caliber this early in their careers. Defencemen of this caliber are usually available on the waiver wire and even late into the off-season in the UFA market. Just tweener guys I think. Maybe Vegas selects Kulak, but Calgary has about zero assets available that are worth anything.

Vegas will definitely have decent defencemen by the end of it, and a bit of a surplus. However, I don't think they can load up that much. Pickard is very likely to be selected as Colorado has junk for the most part. Does Grubauer or Orlov have more trade value? Fleury probably has more trade value than any other Pen that would otherwise be available.

I do agree that Vegas will be targeting defencemen and centers (centers though will be more difficult to come by). Defencemen are definitely great currency, that's for sure. They just won't be able to find enough decent defencemen to make selecting them worthwhile, or they simply risk losing them on the waiver wire when they can't find a trade partner for some of them.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I agree, but to a point.

There are going to be teams that will only have tweener defencemen available. Take Calgary for instance. The best defencemen available will be Kulak (unless Bartkowski is viewed as a better option - not by me anyways). Definitely would be worth a gamble on, but the market isn't really strong for defencemen of this caliber this early in their careers. Defencemen of this caliber are usually available on the waiver wire and even late into the off-season in the UFA market. Just tweener guys I think. Maybe Vegas selects Kulak, but Calgary has about zero assets available that are worth anything.

Vegas will definitely have decent defencemen by the end of it, and a bit of a surplus. However, I don't think they can load up that much. Pickard is very likely to be selected as Colorado has junk for the most part. Does Grubauer or Orlov have more trade value? Fleury probably has more trade value than any other Pen that would otherwise be available.

I do agree that Vegas will be targeting defencemen and centers (centers though will be more difficult to come by). Defencemen are definitely great currency, that's for sure. They just won't be able to find enough decent defencemen to make selecting them worthwhile, or they simply risk losing them on the waiver wire when they can't find a trade partner for some of them.

The one addition, though is that Vegas could sign pending UFAs Stone or Engelland and that would count as the Calgary pick. Now, Vegas has to take at least 20 players under contract for 17-18 (out of the 30 mandatory picks). So they have to be a bit cautious in the number of UFAs they sign.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

The best available talent is at Defense and Goalie. That doesn't equate to value directly, but if you think Vegas can load up on Centres and then reap the reward, you are sadly mistaken. Stajan might actually look decent, out of that sad bunch.

Doing the mock, it seemed pretty clear that Vegas will max out on D and 4-5 goalies and the minimum number of forwards (give or take)

[GioforPM]

What are the odds of Vegas signing Thornton or Marleau?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

What are the odds of Vegas signing Thornton or Marleau?

Younwpuld think those guys are chasing rings not dollars. I guess if McPhee is able to put together an impressive roster one or both could consider signing there?

[TheScorpion]

What are the odds of the Flames signing Marleau, I wonder? You'd have to think that he'd be a great fit on the top line.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Younwpuld think those guys are chasing rings not dollars. I guess if McPhee is able to put together an impressive roster one or both could consider signing there?

Maybe. Picking a team for rings is chancy though - see Iginla, Jarome. Vegas can offer a nice warm-weather lifestyle and not that far from San Jose (I think they both have off-season homes there).

ETA: How many teams can actually afford those guys, as well?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

What are the odds of the Flames signing Marleau, I wonder? You'd have to think that he'd be a great fit on the top line.

It's one of my off-season hopes.

My bet is both those two re-sign in SJ after the ED is over, which leads to cries of "ED circumvention!" that fall on deaf NHL execs ears.

But yeah, Marleau for 1 year @ $5 million would be fantastic.