WC Playoffs Round 1: Colorado Avalanche vs Minnesota Wild (Wild win 4-3).

[ForeverFlameFan]

Didn't watch the game last night, but is losing Barrie affecting Colorado badly at all?

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by codynw

Maybe it was just general incompetence in the Avs management last season? Either way, it looks very suspicious.

Looks like lots of tanking in last 10, but not by Avs

Last 10 games, last season;
36 Florida 3-7-0
39 Colorado 4-4-2 (won lottery)
40 Tampa 2-6-2
41 Nashville 1-8-1
42 Carolina 3-5-2
42 Calgary 5-5-0

Tampa had 40 points, one more than the Avs. They obviously turned it around too.
With three games left in the season, Flames sat down Stempniak, Cammalleri, Stajan, Backlund and Jackman in favour of AHL players, but their 5-1 record in the 6 games before that did them in, and losing final three did not really matter. So I suppose Flames jumped on the tank bandwagon too late.
Meh - I'll happily take Monahan

[Hatter]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Didn't watch the game last night, but is losing Barrie affecting Colorado badly at all?

It hurts their PP and breakouts the most. He's a good player. Stupid Cooke.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by codynw

I don't believe players go out there and try to play bad for a better pick. That just won't happen. Tanking has to happen at the GM level. Not firing an incompetent coach that completely lost the players, not signing Ryan O'Reilly until they were forced to, not doing anything to improve the team in season... Colorado tanked, or at least it certainly looked like they did. They drafted MacKinnon, got the coach they wanted and won the division a year later so it really worked out for them either way, but I still believe it happened.

Their GM was fired FFS. Why would he do those things with the intention of "tanking" just so he could be fired? That makes no sense.

[formulate]

Originally Posted by Ark2

Their GM was fired FFS. Why would he do those things with the intention of "tanking" just so he could be fired? That makes no sense.

Greg Sherman was and is the General Manager of the Avalanche. Not saying that means there was intentional tanking involved, but there is a reason there have been whispers of a system that bases draft positioning on the last x seasons, rather than just one.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Looks like lots of tanking in last 10, but not by Avs

Last 10 games, last season;
36 Florida 3-7-0
39 Colorado 4-4-2 (won lottery)
40 Tampa 2-6-2
41 Nashville 1-8-1
42 Carolina 3-5-2
42 Calgary 5-5-0

Tampa had 40 points, one more than the Avs. They obviously turned it around too.
With three games left in the season, Flames sat down Stempniak, Cammalleri, Stajan, Backlund and Jackman in favour of AHL players, but their 5-1 record in the 6 games before that did them in, and losing final three did not really matter. So I suppose Flames jumped on the tank bandwagon too late.
Meh - I'll happily take Monahan

its not just about the last 10 games, their players mailed it in after it was clear there would be no playoffs

not saying they did it for a draft picks but it happened, their own goalie said as much. People are just annoyed a team that had all ready picked up that much skill via the NHL welfare system got another top pick and then was suddenly better the next season

I'm not too worried though, they are gonna be capped out with no D and likely lose some top talent soon. Honestly there is zero chance they are taking the cup this year

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Ark2

Their GM was fired FFS. Why would he do those things with the intention of "tanking" just so he could be fired? That makes no sense.

no he wasn't

[stignasty]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Looks like lots of tanking in last 10, but not by Avs

Last 10 games, last season;
39 Colorado 4-4-2 (won lottery)

The Avalanche improved at the end after the rant by Jean-Sebastien Giguere about how sick he was of losing.

CP isn't the only place that tanking was mentioned.
Avalanche quitting on the season/

[$ven27]

Originally Posted by dino7c

no he wasn't

He holds the title but is basically nothing but a numbers guy now. The jealousy in this thread is unreal.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by $ven27

He holds the title but is basically nothing but a numbers guy now. The jealousy in this thread is unreal.

As usual, you're just looking to whine.

“Some guys are more worried about their Vegas trip at the end of the season than playing the remaining games. Quite frankly I don’t care about your Vegas trip right now. It’s not constructive,” said JS Giguere following yet another defeat in a string of up and down performances. “It’s embarrassing. I’m embarrassed to be here right now. It’s not even funny.”

That was a talented team that just stopped playing part way through the shortened season. This was admitted by a member of the team flat out. The management knew this, and had to know how terrible of a coach Saco was. Yet there was no change.

Sure, there are a select few who throw out the term 'tank' to loosely. But that was the biggest example for an actual tank job in recent memory.

[dash_pinched]

Patrick Roy (paraphrasing here): "We're right there with them - Now we have to put our balls on the table"

[$ven27]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

As usual, you're just looking to whine.

“Some guys are more worried about their Vegas trip at the end of the season than playing the remaining games. Quite frankly I don’t care about your Vegas trip right now. It’s not constructive,” said JS Giguere following yet another defeat in a string of up and down performances. “It’s embarrassing. I’m embarrassed to be here right now. It’s not even funny.”

That was a talented team that just stopped playing part way through the shortened season. This was admitted by a member of the team flat out. The management knew this, and had to know how terrible of a coach Saco was. Yet there was no change.

Sure, there are a select few who throw out the term 'tank' to loosely. But that was the biggest example for an actual tank job in recent memory.

No it wasn't. Giguere calling out the team wasn't mid season either, the season was almost complete. They also ended up getting rid of those players rumoured to be involved in the Vegas trip ( O'Brien and Galliardi.

There are very few teams that have a never die attitude and also pick in the top 5, outside of maybe Nashville the Flames are the only team like that. What people continuously fail to understand is that Roy was their guy since 2009 (They contacted him but he refused, didn't feel ready for the NHL yet) hiring a new coach midseason when the season is already lost makes zero sense.

As for the ROR situation, it was Pierre LaCroix who negotiated with Ryan O'Reilly and he was very much in the old-school mindset of lowballing young players and not bending when It came to contracts, and if they didn't budge, then he sent them packing. (Ex: Chris Drury to Calgary)

So really it wasn't tanking at all it was inept management just like the Oilers, the Oilers never tanked they just genuinely suck and yet I don't hear anything from Tampa about tanking. They were equally as bad last year and it's almost equally as impressive this year and no one says anything about them tanking.

[GoJetsGo]

Obviously, no one can prove a team tanked. That being said, whether you like it or not, with all the evidence pointing to it there is no one out of line here suggesting that's exactly what Colorado did last year. It's a completely valid take, and there is a very strong case for it, unlike a lot of other superfluous accusations that do get thrown around.

Those comments by JSG were made in early April, and were obviously about attitudes that had been prevailing up to that point. It's not like it just happened that afternoon. The O'Riley situation only came to a head because of the Flames, otherwise that's a key piece they elected to have miss the entire shortened season. When you take all of those things into account, it's a very strong case despite your outright dismissal of anyone being justified in feeling that way.

As for the Oilers this year, the fact they traded away their best defensive defenseman early in the season (when it was painfully obvious they can't play defense) and had their GM talking about Eckblad in the new year, it's pretty obvious they wrote off this season as well. That is another case of the the term tanking being justified for discussion sake.

Despite your quickness for whining and casting stones about people with the audacity to call "tank"... it does happen. And Colorado last year and Edmonton this year are very strong suspects in that regard.

[$ven27]

I literally just covered all those points and explained them so you'd understand. But your opinion is that they did, okay. You're entitled to an opinion, I completely disagree. But leave the petty insults out of discussion if you don't mind,

[ForeverFlameFan]

I came in this thread to see updates about game 4, not if Colorado tanked.

Go make a "Did Colorado Tank for MacKinnon?" thread.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Aside from that, this matchup seems closer than it appears.

Colorado only scored one goal in the last two games... What has gotten them from not scoring as much as they did the first two games? Are they losing momentum? I just have so many questions for this series because there are so many playoff series to keep track of each one.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Obviously, no one can prove a team tanked. That being said, whether you like it or not, with all the evidence pointing to it there is no one out of line here suggesting that's exactly what Colorado did last year. It's a completely valid take, and there is a very strong case for it, unlike a lot of other superfluous accusations that do get thrown around.

Those comments by JSG were made in early April, and were obviously about attitudes that had been prevailing up to that point. It's not like it just happened that afternoon. The O'Riley situation only came to a head because of the Flames, otherwise that's a key piece they elected to have miss the entire shortened season. When you take all of those things into account, it's a very strong case despite your outright dismissal of anyone being justified in feeling that way.

As for the Oilers this year, the fact they traded away their best defensive defenseman early in the season (when it was painfully obvious they can't play defense) and had their GM talking about Eckblad in the new year, it's pretty obvious they wrote off this season as well. That is another case of the the term tanking being justified for discussion sake.

Despite your quickness for whining and casting stones about people with the audacity to call "tank"... it does happen. And Colorado last year and Edmonton this year are very strong suspects in that regard.

There's no way that Edmonton tanked. The amount of pressure that their fans have begun to pour on them (not to mention, select media) has made it pretty uncomfortable for them, so there's just no way that I can imagine them wanting this season to end the way it did. Lowe even said during his infamous press conference last year that the "losing portion" of their rebuild was over. Despite the fact that he is a complete blow-hard, there's no chance that he would intentionally stick his foot in his mouth that far.

The Smid trade was pretty awful, but to suggest that trading Smid is akin to tanking is laughable. Smid is a bottom pairing defenseman that does little, if anything, to improve a team that is as terrible defensively as Edmonton. Suggesting that he was their best defensive player is the pinnacle of non-statements. The reality is, Smid was traded to free up cap room so they could sign Brygalov, which was a move that they obviously hoped would make them better. We saw MacTavish make more moves than any other GM in the league, all with the obvious intention of getting his team to win more games. He is just inept at his job, hence their 28th finish in the league.

[EldrickOnIce]

Based on attendance, Edmonton is a team that easily could tank. They fill the barn and make money hand over fist regardless. Until or unless it translates into reduced revenue, there is no real urgency to win there.

Colorado, on the other hand, could hardly afford to. It's a pretty bold organizational strategy to tank when you are barely operating at break even.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Ark2

There's no way that Edmonton tanked. The amount of pressure that their fans have begun to pour on them (not to mention, select media) has made it pretty uncomfortable for them, so there's just no way that I can imagine them wanting this season to end the way it did. Lowe even said during his infamous press conference last year that the "losing portion" of their rebuild was over. Despite the fact that he is a complete blow-hard, there's no chance that he would intentionally stick his foot in his mouth that far.

The Smid trade was pretty awful, but to suggest that trading Smid is akin to tanking is laughable. Smid is a bottom pairing defenseman that does little, if anything, to improve a team that is as terrible defensively as Edmonton. Suggesting that he was their best defensive player is the pinnacle of non-statements. The reality is, Smid was traded to free up cap room so they could sign Brygalov, which was a move that they obviously hoped would make them better. We saw MacTavish make more moves than any other GM in the league, all with the obvious intention of getting his team to win more games. He is just inept at his job, hence their 28th finish in the league.

Do I think they started out the season collectively agreeing to aim for another high draft pick? No, but after two months into the season It think their management knew the writing was on the wall and they fell into that familiar territory of accepting failure. The culture of losing, playing without pride and dialling it in was blatantly obvious across the board with the team on the ice. It wasn't a conspiracy, but it wasn't long into the season both the team and the management resigned themselves to the fact they weren't even going to try. Call it what you want. Edmonton has had that prevailing attitude for some time.

[Scoreface]

^^the phenomena you describe is called Edmonton is no good. Whether you frame it as 2 months into yet another dismal season or x number of years into the rebuild with no hope in sight, it's all the same. It's a blackhole, death spiral scenario. Hope abounds in the offseason and into the first handful of games. Then the slippery hope into the abyss. No. Darn Good.

Can go into the appropriate thread too. I think we know which one.