[News] Flames scratch Sven...again

[Stanley]

Originally Posted by northcrunk

I would like the Calgary media to be asking harder questions to the coach and making him accountable for his decisions. We have been pretty much left in the dark about these scratchings while Bob gives a very general awnser and then comes up with a folksy saying to deflect and the media just accepts that.

seriously? left in the dark? You need an explanation?

[stone hands]

comparing Bart to Edmonton putting 1st round picks straight into the lineup after draft day is not comparable at all, apples to oranges

anyone who is ok with this for whatever reason(mostly blind faith in heartly) ask yourself this:

do you really think the flames are better off with jackman/monahan/hudler than bart/monahan/hudler? in ANY respect?

[Diemenz]

Originally Posted by stone hands

comparing Bart to Edmonton putting 1st round picks straight into the lineup after draft day is not comparable at all, apples to oranges

anyone who is ok with this for whatever reason(mostly blind faith in heartly) ask yourself this:

do you really think the flames are better off with jackman/monahan/hudler than bart/monahan/hudler? in ANY respect?

This is year one of the rebuild. The rookies need to learn now so in 2 years someone isn't making a "Svens so lazy" thread.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by stone hands

do you really think the flames are better off with jackman/monahan/hudler than bart/monahan/hudler? in ANY respect?

The answer to that question is No but If we are truly committed to rebuilding the question is irrelevant.

Decisions cannot be made on what makes us the best team tonight, they have to be made based on what makes us the best team in 2 or 3 years.

The proper question is:

Does sitting Sven Baertschi tonight make him a better player in the long term?

And honestly none of us, not even the coach, knows the answer to that question at this time. We can debate it and question the decision, but really none of us know how this will play out.

[Igottago]

As long as the organization is looking to make decisions based on the future, I won't argue against it. I actually don't care much what happes in tonights game or most of this season actually. If scratching Sven is better for his long term development, I'm fine with it. Also, there has to be an expectation of excellence in this organization, its been lacking for a long, long time. Sven is going to be relied on as a key player for years to come...if there needs to be some tough learning right now, so be it. I highly doubt any of the Flames management or coaching staff are trying to ruin the kid.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Igottago

As long as the organization is looking to make decisions based on the future, I won't argue against it. I actually don't care much what happes in tonights game or most of this season actually. If scratching Sven is better for his long term development, I'm fine with it. Also, there has to be an expectation of excellence in this organization, its been lacking for a long, long time. Sven is going to be relied on as a key player for years to come...if there needs to be some tough learning right now, so be it. I highly doubt any of the Flames management or coaching staff are trying to ruin the kid.

So explain why Glencross never missed a game, shift or PP time this year? What kind of message does that send?

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by stone hands

comparing Bart to Edmonton putting 1st round picks straight into the lineup after draft day is not comparable at all, apples to oranges

anyone who is ok with this for whatever reason(mostly blind faith in heartly) ask yourself this:

do you really think the flames are better off with jackman/monahan/hudler than bart/monahan/hudler? in ANY respect?

Of course they aren't. For those who understand (and are probably correct) that having Baertschi in the lineup gives them a better chance to win, would you rather finish 9th again, or are you on board with the rebuild? Playing junkers like Tim Jackman gives the Flames a better shot at a higher pick. What's not to love?

<<<<<Insert Tinordi's spiel about being a cup contender and not just a playoff bubble team here>>>>

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by northcrunk

I would like the Calgary media to be asking harder questions to the coach and making him accountable for his decisions. We have been pretty much left in the dark about these scratchings while Bob gives a very general awnser and then comes up with a folksy saying to deflect and the media just accepts that.

As much as I would like to know why... I would much rather the coach be communicating with the player as to why he isn't playing. I don't know if Hartley is being clear with baertschi about it but I hope he is.

Baertschi is praised for his work ethic and tenacity... And he has still shown it this year. His only struggle so far has been confidence and when he is singled out above everyone else all the time... I can see why. He seems to be the only one who is punished for even the slightest miscue. How many game-breaking mistakes have guys butler, jackman, glencross, and Brodie made without being put in the press box? Not that I think they should be punished but why is Sven singled out? It seems like the consensus among most people and analysts is confusion about why they are doing this to baertschi.

He may not be scoring as much but I haven't noticed a single give-away from him that has cost the team or a time when his lost coverage in the defensive zone has caused a goal against. He creates at least 2 great scoring chances every game on average and that line feels more effective with him on it than anyone else.

[stone hands]

intentionally gimping yourself is for losers and does a disservice to your organization and your fans

shame on you if you really think icing anything worse than the best team your roster offers is better for the team than actually trying to win hockey games

the flames of 13-14 are going to be bad already, we don't need to make them any worse

[TheDebaser]

BigBrodieFan, Five-hole, Supermatt, and Igottogo get it.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by stone hands

intentionally gimping yourself is for losers and does a disservice to your organization and your fans

shame on you if you really think icing anything worse than the best team your roster offers is better for the team than actually trying to win hockey games

the flames of 13-14 are going to be bad already, we don't need to make them any worse

For the record, I agree with you. I've just got a lot of patience after watching the Sutters grind this organization into the dirt for years.

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by stone hands

intentionally gimping yourself is for losers and does a disservice to your organization and your fans

shame on you if you really think icing anything worse than the best team your roster offers is better for the team than actually trying to win hockey games

the flames of 13-14 are going to be bad already, we don't need to make them any worse

That's not what's happening here. We're not intentionally gimping the lineup so we lose. We're making decisions (or so the theory goes) that will make us better in the future with the possible side effect of making us slightly worse today.

We're not sitting Dennis Wideman to lose enough games so we can draft Ekblad.

Presumably you're 100% against trading vets for futures this year?

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

So explain why Glencross never missed a game, shift or PP time this year? What kind of message does that send?

You don't handle a veteran the same way you handle a youngster. Scratching key vets almost never turn out well, causes organizational turmoil, and could result in some serious fracturing of the relationship with the player.

Scratching youth could be a positive to their learning and development.

[May 25, 1989]

Originally Posted by Diemenz

This is year one of the rebuild. The rookies need to learn now so in 2 years someone isn't making a "Svens so lazy" thread.

This.

Obviously the coaching staff sees something in his game that needs to be better - that while exceptionally skilled he is having a tough time competing day in and day out in the NHL. Unfortunately this is part of the maturing process for a 21 year old player.

They obviously didn't see enough in practice yesterday to think that it was worth him sitting again.

The roster looks better with him in it, however, agree or disagree the staff feels that what is best for Svens development is to sit him to help him learn.

This method is used with young players at all high levels of hockey and hopefully that it will make him a better player in the long run.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

This IS a big deal when I'm paying big money to see one of the best prospects on our team, and he's being benched...again and again and again.

Entertaining paying customers in the short term at the expense of the long-term progress and improvement of the team is what forced the Flames into a rebuild in the first place.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by BigBrodieFan

I think you may be missing the point.

Definition of rebuild is to rebuild (something) again after it has been damaged or destroyed. Jackman and McGrattan can't be rebuilt, Sven can be built from the ground up. Hartley has made a commitment to rebuild the flames without making the same mistakes coaches have with players like Jackman and McGrattan. We can't say 'Blow it up' and 'Rebuild' and then 'WIN EVERY GAME NOW.' While it's wonderful to see the Flames win, whether you realize it or not, their victories and 'heart' have been a direct result of the way they are being coached. I haven't seen the Flames play with this much passion since 2010. Hartley knows what he's doing. He's in this for the long haul. The seeds are being planted to make Calgary a very good hockey team, as they have shown they can be.

[Freeway]

The Flames are MOST LIKELY going to sell off some pending UFA wingers at the deadline. The Flames goal should be preparing Sven Baertschi to be a strong, everyday NHLer. If the coaching staff says they want more from Baertschi, it has to be with that mindset.

[joe_mullen]

Originally Posted by Igottago

You don't handle a veteran the same way you handle a youngster. Scratching key vets almost never turn out well, causes organizational turmoil, and could result in some serious fracturing of the relationship with the player.

Scratching youth could be a positive to their learning and development.

Scratching youth could also be very detrimental to their development. No way to know how it will affect Sven. Lots of 20 year olds need to be coddled. I for one have no faith that our coaching/management team will make the right decision. Hopefully I'm proven very wrong.

[J epworth]

Originally Posted by joe_mullen

Scratching youth could also be very detrimental to their development. No way to know how it will affect Sven. Lots of 20 year olds need to be coddled. I for one have no faith that our coaching/management team will make the right decision. Hopefully I'm proven very wrong.

Why do you think that is true?

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by joe_mullen

Scratching youth could also be very detrimental to their development. No way to know how it will affect Sven. Lots of 20 year olds need to be coddled. I for one have no faith that our coaching/management team will make the right decision. Hopefully I'm proven very wrong.

Maybe, but I sure as hell don't want them to coddle their youth. That's how you build entitlement attitudes. Last thing we need is for our young players to think regardless of how well they play, they're going to be in the line up.

I'd much rather they have the attitude where they have to work hard, and constantly on improving. If they get complacent, they'll be benched (regardless of if they they think they're better than a "vet"). Baertschi is tied to the Flames for the next 4 or 5 years so the Flames choose. He'll have no choice but to keep working hard if he wants to be an everyday NHLer.