[News] Flames claim Joey MacDonald

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Red

Irving looked great last year. This year he's been rather bad. Out of position, when he makes a save he doesn't know where the puck is. Unpredictable rebounds. You name it, all that in just 2 games.
Some say he kept us in the last game. I disagree, he was lucky in the first period and then did not make a big save when needed in the second. That's when the game was lost. Pretty much any good chance ends up being a goal.

We were lucky to not lose the game in Columbus. He was really bad in that one.

Maybe it's just a confidence issue.

Maybe they will keep him around as a 3rd goalie to try and get his game back.

But as of right now, he's done nothing to suggest he is ready.

I agree. Looking at his game positionaly he lost his net a few times and he let simple un-screened slapshots through his wickets multiple times that he had no idea where the puck was and made a quite a few shots on net look dangerous all game. He made some great fluky desperation saves but his technical game was very poor. Maybe Malarchuck said to management these are things that should be routine saves and he is just not a starter quality goalie going forward. I don't think I was impressed by him personaly and if we are all saying that Brust and Taylor aren't NHL goalies then its pretty clear that nearly any goalie can succeed in Ward's system and Irving actually isn't that good being the worst of the 3 statwise.

[thymebalm]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I'm not going to bother looking but Irving has been the starter in the A more often than not.

He hasn't been waived repeatedly. This is his first year he's been eligible for waivers. Get your facts straight or keep quiet.

watch your tone.

So he's only been waived once. I've watched the Heat play steady for years and I know he's lost his starter job 3 times.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Psytic

lmao maybe you should go look.... just saying.

In each of his 4 full years in the AHL he led his team in GP for goalies. 09-10 was the only year you could plausibly say he wasn't the starter. In 08-09 he played 47 games, in 10-11 he played 61, and last year he was in the NHL for 9 weeks of the season and still played 39 games which was the most on the Heat.

[Tyler]

I've seen all I want to from Irving.

Yeah he made some good saves against Vancouver, but man was he shaky.

Guy can't handle the puck, is out of position more often then not, and doesn't exude an ounce of confidence in the net. That's essential for sticking around in this league.

Based on what I've seen in the last 2 years, I just don't see him in the Flames future.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by thymebalm

watch your tone.

So he's only been waived once. I've watched the Heat play steady for years and I know he's lost his starter job 3 times.

Seriously? What are you, his mother?

[magicpixels]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I don't understand this. Says who?

Brossoit may have been a late round pick, but right now he has some of the best technical skills in the CHL. Any issues he has right now are mental, but it looks like he's vastly improved that aspect of his game since the start of this season.

He probably won't be the next Kiprusoff, but Brossoit certainly has the potential to be a solid NHL starter.

People that watch him play in every single game and watch practices that don't just look at the numbers on a piece of paper.

I can name off a lot of WHL goalies that put up great numbers in the WHL that never even got a single NHL game in. Some of them even carried teams to the memorial cup.

He's an ok prospect, but that's all he is. A project. Feaster would flip him for a 2nd round pick if it was offered.

[thymebalm]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

Seriously? What are you, his mother?

A lot of you could use a mother looking over your shoulder on this forum. Learn to respect others. I'm sure it's in the forum rules somewhere.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by magicpixels

People that watch him play in every single game and watch practices that don't just look at the numbers on a piece of paper.

I can name off a lot of WHL goalies that put up great numbers in the WHL that never even got a single NHL game in. Some of them even carried teams to the memorial cup.

He's an ok prospect, but that's all he is. A project. Feaster would flip him for a 2nd round pick if it was offered.

I don't know what kind of player you think you can get for a 2nd round pick, but you certainly can't get the reigning WHL playoff MVP.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by opendoor

In each of his 4 full years in the AHL he led his team in GP for goalies. 09-10 was the only year you could plausibly say he wasn't the starter. In 08-09 he played 47 games, in 10-11 he played 61, and last year he was in the NHL for 9 weeks of the season and still played 39 games which was the most on the Heat.

What is this? This year and last he was not the clear cut starter. I don't care what he did 4 yrs ago under Sutter. The point is the team has not had confidence in him as the starter since Feaster came in. The 2010 season he was competing with Keetly still. Since Taylor and Brust have been here Irving has not been the starter, its fact.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I don't know what kind of player you think you can get for a 2nd round pick, but you certainly can't get the reigning WHL playoff MVP.

I was curious about this. From wiki, WHL playoff MVP :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WHL_Playoff_MVP

Season Player Team
2012 Laurent Brossoit Edmonton Oil Kings
2011 Nathan Lieuwen Kootenay Ice
2010 Martin Jones Calgary Hitmen
2009 Tyler Myers Kelowna Rockets
2008 Tyler Johnson Spokane Chiefs
2007 Matt Keetley Medicine Hat Tigers
2006 Gilbert Brule Vancouver Giants
2005 Shea Weber Kelowna Rockets
2004 Kevin Nastiuk Medicine Hat Tigers
2003 Jesse Schultz Kelowna Rockets
2002 Duncan Milroy Kootenay Ice
2001 Shane Bendera Red Deer Rebels
2000 Dan Blackburn Kootenay Ice
1999 Brad Moran Calgary Hitmen
1998 Brent Belecki Portland Winter Hawks
1997 Blaine Russell Lethbridge Hurricanes
1996 Bobby Brown Brandon Wheat Kings
1995 Nolan Baumgartner Kamloops Blazers
1994 Steve Passmore Kamloops Blazers
1993 Andrew Schneider Swift Current Broncos
1992 Jarrett Deuling Kamloops Blazers

I bolded the NHLers. (I did leave out Brad Moran though)

EDITTED to add Brule as a NHLer

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by magicpixels

Broissoit doesn't have the same skill level Irving did at the same age. He likely has the same potential Irving has. To be a backup goalie.

I'm not saying never draft a goalie. I'm saying all this talk about not drafting a goalie in the 1st round is ridiculous as it's a sure fired way to pass over elite goalies when they come available.

Yes there is more risk when it comes to drafting goalies but the reward can be worth it. I also think our organization has had a role in being an absolute killer to the growth of young goalies.

Some of the elite G's in the league last year...

Lundvist 7th rd

Rinne 8th rd

Quick 3rd rd

Elliot 9th rd

Halak 9th rd

Smith 5th rd

Howard 2nd rd

Kiprusoff 5th rd

Niemi undrafted

Luongo 1st rd

Brodeur 1st rd

Miller 5th rd



G's that were taken in rd 1 since 2000...and til 2008 (09 and on to early to tell yet)

DiPietro, Krahn, Leclaire, Blackburn, Bacashihua, Munro, Lehtonen, Ward, Toivonen, Fleury, Montoya, Dubnyk, Schwarz, Schneider, Price, Rask, Bernier, Helenius, Varlamov, Irving, Pickard, McCollum

So where would you think the value lies?

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

I was curious about this. From wiki, WHL playoff MVP :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WHL_Playoff_MVP

So what you are saying is that on average a 2nd round pick would be a pretty good return for a reigning WHL playoff MVP.

[magicpixels]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I don't know what kind of player you think you can get for a 2nd round pick, but you certainly can't get the reigning WHL playoff MVP.

Really? Half of the hitmen team just a few years ago made it right to the finals and half the team were a bunch of nobody's that even today nobody wants.

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

I was curious about this. From wiki, WHL playoff MVP :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WHL_Playoff_MVP



I bolded the NHLers. (I did leave out Brad Moran though)

In fairness Blackburn was an NHLer and so was Brule.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

So what you are saying is that on average a 2nd round pick would be a pretty good return for a reigning WHL playoff MVP.

I think unless there is some perculiar reason, I find it interesting that some people would have such an intimate knowledge of all the players not playing in the NHL. (I used to think of myself as that ... when I was 15...) I guess others are experts and can say without a doubt, everything about WHL, KHL, AHL etc in addition to watching NHL games.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

The Flames seem to have an issue with drafting and developing goaltenders. Mike Vernon and Trevor Kidd are the only goaltenders ever drafted by the Calgary Flames to go on to have any sort of sustained NHL career. That's over 33 years.

And consider this:

(a) When Kidd was drafted, the Flames traded with New Jersey, swapping first rounders. Flames took Kidd 11th overall, Devils took Brodeur 20th.
(b) The best example of the Flames having no clue how to draft and develop a goaltender is Craig Anderson. Flames brass at the time, Craig Button I believe, let him re-enter the draft and he has forged out a pretty good career.
(c) Another example of not knowing how to develop a goaltender was Button again moving Giguere for peanuts (what eventually became Mika Elomo). The Flames almost ruined the guy.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

So what you are saying is that on average a 2nd round pick would be a pretty good return for a reigning WHL playoff MVP.

Nvm

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

Last year Irving was in the nets for 7 games:

1) Florida - second half of back to back games
2) Vancouver - second half of back to back games
3) Ottawa - second half of back to back games
4) Boston - first time it was not the backend of back to back games, last game of a 7 game road trip, toughest team on the entire trip
5) Phoenix - second half of back to back games
6) Anaheim - second half of back to back games
7) Edmonton - second half of back to back games

Sutter basically used him 7 times last year in what could be considered 7 of the toughest games of the year, given the back to back nature and all the other circumstances in the Boston game (last game of a 7 game road trip, top team in the league) and he throws up a .912 SV% and does fairly well. I doubt there is a goalie in the league who has played 67% of his career games on the second half of back to back games.

At a bare minimum as an organization they should give him a little more rope to see if they actually have something there. That would be proper asset management in my opinion.

Well, like any other player, G's are not measured merely by games played in the nhl....things like development camps, training camps, AHL practices, NHL practices, etc all go into the determination of whether or not a guy fits in your plans long term...and all those listed ARE opportunities to impress and advance your career.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

I was curious about this. From wiki, WHL playoff MVP :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WHL_Playoff_MVP



I bolded the NHLers. (I did leave out Brad Moran though)

2012 Laurent Brossoit Edmonton Oil Kings
2011 Nathan Lieuwen Kootenay Ice - overage
2010 Martin Jones Calgary Hitmen - overage
2009 Tyler Myers Kelowna Rockets - top draft pick
2008 Tyler Johnson Spokane Chiefs - looks like you might be right about this guy, but putting up great numbers in the AHL
2007 Matt Keetley Medicine Hat Tigers - overage
2006 Gilbert Brule Vancouver Giants - top draft pick
2005 Shea Weber Kelowna Rockets - top player
2004 Kevin Nastiuk Medicine Hat Tigers - not much going on here
2003 Jesse Schultz Kelowna Rockets - overage
2002 Duncan Milroy Kootenay Ice - not much going on here
2001 Shane Bendera Red Deer Rebels - not much here
2000 Dan Blackburn Kootenay Ice - high pick forced into retirement in 2005
1999 Brad Moran Calgary Hitmen - not much here
1998 Brent Belecki Portland Winter Hawks - overage
1997 Blaine Russell Lethbridge Hurricanes - not much here
1996 Bobby Brown Brandon Wheat Kings - overage
1995 Nolan Baumgartner Kamloops Blazers - high pick
1994 Steve Passmore Kamloops Blazers - overage
1993 Andrew Schneider Swift Current Broncos - overage
1992 Jarrett Deuling Kamloops Blazers - not much here

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

In fairness Blackburn was an NHLer and so was Brule.

I've wondered for a couple years now if Blackburn would've made Lunqvuist trade bait. Kid was showing so much promise.