A Song of Ice and Fire **Spoilers** Now more TV talk!

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Have Komskies and Nehkara read the books? I don't think they've posted in this thread but they say Dani knew what the slaver was saying with such confidence that it makes me think they have.

If they just guessed very well then good on them in the TV thread.
If they've read the books then they should STFU.

Alright. I will shut the fata up then. Removed my post in the other thread.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

Yea the Blackfish was done perfectly, love that character. I didn't remember any of this Theon/Ramsay stuff at all... have to go back and read the Wiki to refresh.

Great episode, looks like the Hound duel is up next.

the Theon/Ramsay stuff wasn't in the books at all. it went from him being captured in book 2, to him being completely broken and turned into Reek for book 5 (with a few blurbs about him being flayed by Ramsay in between). looks like the TV series is going to show how Theon gets broken, which is pretty cool

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

looks like the TV series is going to show how Theon gets broken, which is pretty cool

Cool? Really? I don't want to see

NSFW!

Flayed penis

[driveway]

I wonder how the impact of Jamie losing his hand resonated with the never-read-the-books crowd.

While reading I felt like the spectre of Jamie Lannister hung over the story in a really interesting way, his potential for wreaking absolute havoc against the Starks once he'd been released was pretty strongly indicated. I don't know if someone who'd just watched the show would have the same feeling: that Jamie is the best warrior in Westeros, the best swordsman, the most dangerous battlefield enemy of the Starks.

When he got his hand cut off I remember being shocked, just shocked, more so than the Red Wedding, even.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by driveway

I wonder how the impact of Jamie losing his hand resonated with the never-read-the-books crowd.

While reading I felt like the spectre of Jamie Lannister hung over the story in a really interesting way, his potential for wreaking absolute havoc against the Starks once he'd been released was pretty strongly indicated. I don't know if someone who'd just watched the show would have the same feeling: that Jamie is the best warrior in Westeros, the best swordsman, the most dangerous battlefield enemy of the Starks.

When he got his hand cut off I remember being shocked, just shocked, more so than the Red Wedding, even.

Jamie was beaten by a kid on his first tour of duty. sure he took quite a few people down with him, but i never got the impression that he was really all that powerful. Brienne summed it up nicely in the TV show when she said something along the lines of the myth is bigger than the man

and i wasn't really taken aback when he lost his hand, i figured that he would just end up becoming a lefty and still be quite effective. kudos to Martin for going in a different direction and turning Jamie into a really complex character

[Oling_Roachinen]

I feel like Jaime's a combination of the last two posts. In the books he was an amazing swordsman, I don't think it was too exaggerated. He had competition but he was up there for best fighter in Westeros. That's all he was though, a great swordsman. In a fight he might be able to kill a couple men, but that's not going to turn the tide of the war and he's not going to single handedly () win a battle. When it came to commanding he was too rash and uncalculating. Whether it was pushing Bran off the tower or hunting down Eddard, the Lord of Winterfell and Hand of the King, he seemed to be impulsive. And both of those instances failed miserable, Bran survived and Ned was injured stopping Tywin's plan of luring Ned and kidnapping him.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Jamie was beaten by a kid on his first tour of duty. sure he took quite a few people down with him, but i never got the impression that he was really all that powerful. Brienne summed it up nicely in the TV show when she said something along the lines of the myth is bigger than the man

and i wasn't really taken aback when he lost his hand, i figured that he would just end up becoming a lefty and still be quite effective. kudos to Martin for going in a different direction and turning Jamie into a really complex character

I think its hard to appreciate Jamie's skill in the books because he was never a POV character when he had his hand, and Robb wasn't at all, so the Battle of the Whispering Woods was only seen from Catelyn's POV.

He did cut his way through three of Robb's guard before being captured, and even when he was weak from being held captive, still held his own against Brienne in her prime.

[GreenLantern]

I was under the imperssion that it went Selmy, Stark, Lanister for swordsmen.

The late great Ser Arthur Dayne being better than all three..

[rayne008]

I never got the impression any of the Starks were expert swordsmen.. Skilled for sure but in my mind never a match for Jamie.

[Tinordi]

The fight between Brianne and Jamie bore little resemblance to the books. Jamie, a year in captivity and shackled had Brianne on the ripped the whole fight. Her inner monologue was running with how fast and strong he was even in that weakened state.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by rayne008

I never got the impression any of the Starks were expert swordsmen.. Skilled for sure but in my mind never a match for Jamie.

Ned's brother Brandon was an expert, Ned was never described as a gifted swordsman although he could certainly hold his own.

[GreenLantern]

Went back and did some wiki reading and I think you guys are right, Lannister is above Ned for sword skill. Barristen comments on how Ned is modest, he has seen him cut down a dozen great knights. Even found a quote from Martin that Brandon is far and away the best swordsmen of the Starks, and Neds talents lie elsewhere. I think seeing his duel with Jamie must have clouded my judgement, and a lot of the internet agrees with me. Ned shouldn't have lasted that long with Jamie... I haven't read the books in so long it all becomes a haze. Especially when Malazan gets mixed in there as well lol..

I think now that I am out of fantasy series it might be time for a re read.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

The fight between Brianne and Jamie bore little resemblance to the books. Jamie, a year in captivity and shackled had Brianne on the ripped the whole fight. Her inner monologue was running with how fast and strong he was even in that weakened state.

It was through Jaime's point of view that we saw the fight. I think a lot of what we saw was his pride. Brienne isn't trying to hurt him so she doesn't have a terrible lot of options in a sword fight. She knows he's malnourished, so why not let the fight drag on for a long time and tire him out? Jaime's thinking he has the upperhand, but he's playing into Brienne. It was only when his swings got heavy and he slowed down that she pushed back and won. He also notes, like the Cleganes, Brienne is stronger than him.

Sure, malnourished and manacled are huge disadvantages. At that point the fact Jaime is putting up a fight at all against another great swordsman in Brienne is a testament to his skill, but I don't think he's in a class all of his own.

As for Eddard, he obviously can hold his own but he can't be in that upper echelon. 3 vs 7 fight against the Kingsguard, as good as they were, only went Ned's way because of Howland. He also spared with Bronze Yohn Royce. Fighting 2 vs 1 alongside Rodrik and they still lost.

George R.R. Martin has said before the best fighters would be a tie between a prime Barristan Selmy and Arthur Dayne welding Dawn. Selmy would win if not for Dawn.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

seeing people commenting on Dany giving up a dragon for the Unsullied, saying it's too high of a price. so hard to keep my mouth shut in that other thread

I do like that they have kept it a little vague with whether she knows the language (even with the hint at the end), I think if they made that clear from the start on the show it would be obvious what is going to happen and most people I have talked to who haven't read the books (and the people in that thread) thinks she actually might give up a dragon

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

I do like that they have kept it a little vague with whether she knows the language (even with the hint at the end), I think if they made that clear from the start on the show it would be obvious what is going to happen and most people I have talked to who haven't read the books (and the people in that thread) thinks she actually might give up a dragon

A few are getting really close to guessing the outcome, I saw one post where someone even mentioned how the slavers could prevent the Unsullied from being turned against them. I can't wait to see the actual carnage unfold, hopefully it lives up to expectations

[Bigtime]

So in the last episode were those of us that read the books supposed to assume that the "bas*#rd" that rescued Theon in the woods is Ramsay Bolton? This rescue being simply just another one of his mind games as he pretty much destroys "Theon"?

[TurnedTheCorner]

I took it that he was Bolton the moment he freed Theon in the prior episode, and the hunt cinched it for me. After the episode I read up on some news and saw a casting story confirming that the actor is in fact portraying Ramsay.

[rayne008]

Who were the guys who captured Theon then?

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by rayne008

Who were the guys who captured Theon then?

just some guys in Ramsay's employ. expendable

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by rayne008

Who were the guys who captured Theon then?

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

just some guys in Ramsay's employ. expendable

That's what I was thinking too, obviously they have changed this from the books where see from Theon's POV that Ramsay betrays him after entering Winterfell with his crew.

I guess the show may be setting it up with Ramsay killing his own men (or were those ones his fathers men?) to show just how insane he is. Will set up the never ending torture of Theon quite nicely.