My only issue with 911 is how the buildings fell. I don't know who it was or why and Im not going to speculate that it was the US or AQ or whatever. But if a building is going to collapse from an impact like that its not going to do so in perfect demolition style.
Take a look at this video.
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It's been a looong time, most everything anyone can post has already been discussed.
If someone started a thread trying to seriously discuss the plausibility of a flat earth, what do you expect the reaction to be?
People get treated like they act.
He was being ridiculed in the other thread, and BEGGED by multiple posters to create it's own thread and not to jam the other thread full of 9/11 theories.
So he does that only to have more people ridicule him?
Honestly if people DON'T want to hear it anymore, there's an ignore list AND the ability to NOT open a thread and add senseless insults in it.
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The Pentagon
A hijacked plane full of people disappears shortly after two more hijacked planes were crashed into buildings, radar shows the plane disappearing as a huge explosion occurs at the Pentagon, hundreds of eyewitnesses including at least one professional pilot have gone on the record reporting that they saw a plane crash into the Pentagon, and there is a trail of damage the width of a plane leading up to the impact site, and a 40,000 pound generator was hit by something big enough to knock it off its mounts and move it toward the damaged area. But the plane didn't cartoonishly punch an outline of itself through a reinforced wall intended to stand up to anything short of a direct nuclear strike, so it must have been a missile. Some people even say there were holograms involved!
Debris found include several clearly identifiable plane parts, and eyewitnesses report that bits of aluminum identified as the plane's skin rained down for as much as 45 minutes after the impact. Not to mention that there's a missing plane and all its passengers and crew.
This one has always been a pet peeve of mine. Why the heck would a plane barrel through heavily reinforced walls? This is an airplane we're talking about. Weight is routinely cut off to ensure that the thrust will keep it afloat. Simply put, steel isn't amazingly resistant to torques and should bend more than deforms in a tangent for collisions (Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. I didn't like my solid mechanics class ).
Also, just by pure mass/momentum it makes sense. If we shot a horizontal branch at a tree, I'm sure we'd fully expect the branch, not the tree, to break, right?
Are you going to continue to slinging insults or are you actually going to contribute something?
I feel sorry for anyone who believes whatever the government spoon feeds them.
Here's my problem-
There is absolutely nothing more that can be added to this discussion that can change people's minds, one way or the other. A conspiracist is a conspiracist before the facts and it wouldn't matter what conclusive evidence or arguments are presented. A conspiracist is going to believe that 9/11 was a cover up before they watch a single youtube video or 9/11 "truth website"...
However, I do find the kids from Loose Change to be an awfully special bunch... uneducated kids arguing with leading experts/PhD. holders in Physics, structural engineering, Chemistry etc...
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I've seen this and I've also seen Zeitgeist which goes over this as well. But keeping an open mind, just because the towers may have been blown at the bottom and basically demoed, doesn't mean that Al Queda couldn't have been responsible for that as well.
My only issue with 911 is how the buildings fell. I don't know who it was or why and Im not going to speculate that it was the US or AQ or whatever. But if a building is going to collapse from an impact like that its not going to do so in perfect demolition style.
Are you an engineer? How do you know how a building is supposed to and not supposed to collapse?
9/11 was exactly what you saw on all the live newscasts. Simplicity and no fear of death made what was thought to be impossible relatively easy to achieve.
The only part of any conspiracy theory I can buy into is that the government knew something was coming and for whatever reason did not act on it. The scale and effect of the attack was unfathomable and what could have been a minor attack used to garner favor for a war became a disaster with the same effect.
I saw the second plane hit on live TV. No one will ever convince me it was anything but a bunch of radicals who got the better of the USA.
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He was being ridiculed in the other thread, and BEGGED by multiple posters to create it's own thread and not to jam the other thread full of 9/11 theories.
Begged because it was off topic and derailing the thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iggyntangs
So he does that only to have more people ridicule him?
Honestly if people DON'T want to hear it anymore, there's an ignore list AND the ability to NOT open a thread and add senseless insults in it.
Or they can exercise their voice as well and voice what they think about something.
This has been discussed to death. And the thread always follows the same pattern..
I raised a concern about the first item posted just to see what the reaction would be. Would there be engagement on the topic, a real discussion, or gish gallop past... And as I figured the gish gallop just runs on sprinkled with long debunked videos with scary music and supposedly unanswered questions based on ignorance of physics etc..
Most people who are knowledgeable don't care to discuss it anymore because they've long since realized a simple principle.. you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into. And 9/11 conspiracy theories are so rife with flawed reasoning and cognitive biases that any real information or concerns gets lost in the noise.
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
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A website that really should end all debate but sadly won't.
The Popular Mechanics issue on 9/11 conspiracies was very good as well.
And no, nothing will end the debate. A "Conspiracist" is a way of being, and the people that believe one typically believe them all. I had written out a well worded response to the "secondary explosion" video that attempted to explain a few things, but decided not to post it. Beerfest will not change his/her mind regardless of what is said on the issue... and that's fine- It doesn't really cause harm to anyone and they have the right to believe what they want-
except of course the low-life's who picket 9/11 memorial services
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This one has always been a pet peeve of mine. Why the heck would a plane barrel through heavily reinforced walls? This is an airplane we're talking about. Weight is routinely cut off to ensure that the thrust will keep it afloat. Simply put, steel isn't amazingly resistant to torques and should bend more than deforms in a tangent for collisions (Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. I didn't like my solid mechanics class ).
Also, just by pure mass/momentum it makes sense. If we shot a horizontal branch at a tree, I'm sure we'd fully expect the branch, not the tree, to break, right?
Hmmmmm......Lets see, a bullet shaped object weighing over 100 tons travelling in excess of 400 miles per hour hitting a glass and steel wall would just bounce off? Dude. I saw that second plane hit. Its called irresistible force.
Last edited by Red Ice Player; 10-17-2010 at 10:31 PM.
Reason: spelling
Just to put this in perspective... that group has roughly 1,000 members. How many of those are engineers? Who knows. How many of those engineers are actually practicing in the civil or related disciplines? Again - who knows - they don't say.
To contrast, APEGGA alone has 60,000 registered members practicing in Alberta. The number of engineers that have no problem with the explanations of the physics given far far FAR outnumber this silly little group. Why is that? Do they have data that nobody else has had a chance to look at? Or are all other engineers in the world being paid off in an even bigger cover-up? If so, my check must have been lost in the mail...
). 
