Muslims have nothing to apologize for

[mykalberta]

You bomb or plan to bomb me and or my stuff, you are a dirty rotten terrorist and should rightly be beaten till death.

I dont care by what religion you claim to be or by what language you speak.

[alltherage]

Originally Posted by octothorp

What does it mean for something to be done in the name of someone? It's a rhetorical argument that amounts to nothing. If a priest did tell a victim that Christ compelled him to submit to the priest's wishes, (and really, I don't think it's that much of a stretch for a man who's already abusing his power so horribly to invoke the name of Christ) would that make all other Christians culpable? Clearly not. If you want to talk about whether Islam has contributing factors that lead to the attacks (a very valid argument), or whether Catholicism has contributing factors that lead to abuses (also valid), go ahead and make those arguments. But to suggest that all Islam is culpable because the name of their god was invoked is laughable.

You could not have mis-understood me more.

I wasn't saying that Islam is to blame because they use Allah's name, I was saying that the people who apologize on behalf of their religion make it worse.

I don't believe extremists are a good barometer of the religion as a whole- in any case, be it Christina, Muslim, Scientology... whatever.

I am just saying they shouldn't dignify or justify what the extremist is doing or saying by apologizing on behalf of the religion.

I dont know if that makes sense.... but no, I didnt mean my post the way you interpreted it.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by alltherage

You could not have mis-understood me more.

I wasn't saying that Islam is to blame because they use Allah's name, I was saying that the people who apologize on behalf of their religion make it worse.

I don't believe extremists are a good barometer of the religion as a whole- in any case, be it Christina, Muslim, Scientology... whatever.

I am just saying they shouldn't dignify or justify what the extremist is doing or saying by apologizing on behalf of the religion.

I dont know if that makes sense.... but no, I didnt mean my post the way you interpreted it.

Okay, fair enough. I didn't get that at all from your previous post, but I agree with you here, particularly about the apologies making it worse.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

The other key difference is that if someone knew who the firebombers are, we feel that they would call the police (there is a trust that we are all looking out for the common good as citizens). The perception is that Muslims are not stepping in and calling the police when they know something is up within their community. I think that point is pretty simple and you are well aware of this perception. Since you knew that, why did you make that post?

And yes many other groups do apologize for stupid actions of their members.

Do you get paid to make posts like this? What motivates you to post things like this to Calgary puck? It seems every website I frequent has someone making virtually the same type of posts.

That's YOUR perception but it is far from the truth. It only demonstrates your ignorance of reality.

You really amaze me Naga. You so willing paint an entire religion (and not even a homogeneous race) with one broad brush stroke, but woe be anyone who demonstrates the VERY SAME intolerance towards the Jewish people or Israel. They are labeled anti-Semites.

Too bad there isn't a similar word for anti-islam'ers like yourself and your ilk.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

I disagree with parts of what Arar is saying.

1. People are associating the abuses that the church inflicted on children with the Catholic Church. I am not religious in the least but even I have a difficult time ignoring this. How many times have we read in the news that the pope has apologized for the actions of specific members of the clergy? With a ten second google search at least two times.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8577740.stm
http://www.newsweek.com/2008/04/15/t...eep-shame.html

Or for the abuses at residential schools

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/0...ons042909.html

The facts of the matter are that the leadership of the church in the highest positions are now apologizing for the abuses that have occurred in the past.

2. None of the so-called terrorist actions have been called terrorist actions in the news... except for the fact that they have been

Pipeline Bomber
"RCMP are asking residents in northeastern B.C. to be patient as they investigate the sixth bombing of an EnCana Corp. natural gas pipeline, attacks they are now labelling "domestic terrorism."

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-col...#ixzz0yOF6Q0A3

RBC Firebombing

"The brazen May 18 firebombing of a Glebe bank was to be just the start of a “domestic terrorism” campaign launched by three anarchists bent on acts of destruction at the G20 summit in Toronto, with one of the accused firebombers stockpiling boxes of ammunition and gunpowder, the Citizen has learned."


http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports/...#ixzz0yOFOnknK

Canadian Forces Bombing
"Home grown terrorist group Resistance Internationaliste claims responsibility for Quebec blast"

http://www.topix.com/forum/ca/quebec/T3CO19LQVGED2HM6F
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1626227/


There seems to be a lot of woe is me in this article.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

I disagree with parts of what Arar is saying.

1. People are associating the abuses that the church inflicted on children with the Catholic Church. I am not religious in the least but even I have a difficult time ignoring this. How many times have we read in the news that the pope has apologized for the actions of specific members of the clergy? With a ten second google search at least two times.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8577740.stm
http://www.newsweek.com/2008/04/15/t...eep-shame.html

Or for the abuses at residential schools

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/0...ons042909.html

The facts of the matter are that the leadership of the church in the highest positions are now apologizing for the abuses that have occurred in the past.

2. None of the so-called terrorist actions have been called terrorist actions in the news... except for the fact that they have been

Pipeline Bomber
"RCMP are asking residents in northeastern B.C. to be patient as they investigate the sixth bombing of an EnCana Corp. natural gas pipeline, attacks they are now labelling "domestic terrorism."

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-col...#ixzz0yOF6Q0A3

RBC Firebombing

"The brazen May 18 firebombing of a Glebe bank was to be just the start of a “domestic terrorism” campaign launched by three anarchists bent on acts of destruction at the G20 summit in Toronto, with one of the accused firebombers stockpiling boxes of ammunition and gunpowder, the Citizen has learned."

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports/...#ixzz0yOFOnknK

Canadian Forces Bombing
"Home grown terrorist group Resistance Internationaliste claims responsibility for Quebec blast"

http://www.topix.com/forum/ca/quebec/T3CO19LQVGED2HM6F
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1626227/


There seems to be a lot of woe is me in this article.

That definitely puts the claim that only Muslims get called terrorists in perspective. Seems like this guy could use a bit of actual research, or at least one of these:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bc+pipeline+bombings+terrorism

Michael

[GreenTeaFrapp]

What about Michael Jackson giving little boys "Jesus Juice" before he molested them? Would that be a better comparison than the Catholic Church turning a blind eye to being a haven for pedophiles?

Michael,

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

I agree with him that the Canadian Muslim Congress or whatever they are called should not have to apologize for the actions of the extremely small minority but at the same time I do believe that these groups should be doing as much as is possible to curb these cases of "home grown terrorism" and unfortunatly the line between apologizing and condemning is blurry, how can you condemn these groups who call themselves muslim without at the same time apologizing for the actions.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

I agree with him that the Canadian Muslim Congress or whatever they are called should not have to apologize for the actions of the extremely small minority but at the same time I do believe that these groups should be doing as much as is possible to curb these cases of "home grown terrorism" and unfortunatly the line between apologizing and condemning is blurry, how can you condemn these groups who call themselves muslim without at the same time apologizing for the actions.

"I condemn the holocaust. It was a bad thing that never should have happened, and I'm strongly against it."

I personally don't have anything to apologize for, since I had nothing to do with it. I'm still against it, and could make a public statement to that effect.

Muslim leadership groups can come out against acts of terrorism without apologizing.

Michael

[Azim]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Too bad there isn't a similar word for anti-islam'ers like yourself and your ilk.

There most definitely is, Islamophobes, or Islamophobia.

Interesting video on the rampant islamophobia in the U.S below:

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/vi...hobia.cnn.html


Azim

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

"I condemn the holocaust. It was a bad thing that never should have happened, and I'm strongly against it."

I personally don't have anything to apologize for, since I had nothing to do with it. I'm still against it, and could make a public statement to that effect.

Muslim leadership groups can come out against acts of terrorism without apologizing.

Michael

If you were a German in 1946 though condemning the Holocaust, condemning would go hand in hand with apologizing for the actions in my opinion.

[SeeBass]

I dont follow the abortion centre bombings, but those clinics were percieved as an act against ones god and justified by ones god.

Did the bombers church or religion apologize or come out against these acts? (serious question cause I dont know)

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

I dont follow the abortion centre bombings, but those clinics were percieved as an act against ones god and justified by ones god.

Did the bombers church or religion apologize or come out against these acts? (serious question cause I dont know)

Nope, but I do remember a condemnation of the act.

In that case, I demand that the environmental groups apologize for the hostage taking at the discovery channel yesterday.

[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

That's YOUR perception but it is far from the truth. It only demonstrates your ignorance of reality.

You really amaze me Naga. You so willing paint an entire religion (and not even a homogeneous race) with one broad brush stroke, but woe be anyone who demonstrates the VERY SAME intolerance towards the Jewish people or Israel. They are labeled anti-Semites.

Too bad there isn't a similar word for anti-islam'ers like yourself and your ilk.

I find that the most common word today is ‘Islam-aphobe’.

Regarding the issue of the perception of Muslim Community in-action, it cannot be just Nage’s perception. This past week both Tarek Fatah (Canadian Muslim Congress) and a prominent Toronto Imam called for the Muslim community to speak out against terrorism. Your comment that the Muslim community is speaking out is also true – the Toronto 18 case was broken by a Muslim informant, as I am sure was the case of those accused in Ottawa. Also there was the declaration made last January by many prominent Imams - Link Here
(Note that they single out North America and the article only posts the ‘Charter of Rights that Mohammed guaranteed to Christians’)

I am going to go with another poster here and say we need less apologizing and more condemning.

Regarding the issue of labeling people I have two points. Firstly people should be sure what they are talking (posting) about before labeling anyone anything. Often the ‘anti-semite’ label is used by someone lacking a good retort and/or who does not recognize the difference in the accused’s argument. (Israel should tear down the wall and end the blockade are legitimate (some would say anti-Israel) arguments, that Israel is an illegal state and should cease to exist and there should be no Jewish state is anti-Semitic).

Secondly, it has recently become common practice for Israel bashers (and Jew baiters) to preempt the ‘anti-Semitic’ accusation by co-opting it into their own arguments and belittling any responses – “I’ve made my point and now you are just going to call me an anti-Semite even though my argument is perfectly legit. So go ahead and use your only shot – call me an anti-Semite!”
Your post already dismisses any opposing opinion.

Is it Islamophobic to post that there is a “perception is that Muslims are not stepping in and calling the police when they know something is up within their community.”?



No, I think it is just ignorance easily disproven.

[VladtheImpaler]

I have a question - should I take the unofficial Hamas Spokesman off my ignore list? Anything interesting that I am missing by not doing so? Thanks in advance.

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by vladtheimpaler

i have a question - should i take the unofficial hamas spokesman off my ignore list? Anything interesting that i am missing by not doing so? Thanks in advance.

أنا أشعر بالإهانة التي لديك تجاهله لي. انها خسارة الخاصة بك. هل غاب عن دعوتي لكبكك يوم الاربعاء ليلا والفيلم. كان لدينا وقت كبير. حصلت مكيافيلي في ارتفاع نسبة السكر ورقصوا قطب في منتصف غرفة المعيشة.

وكان... انفجار!

[peter12]

Let's be honest, Islamophobia is a problem but so is the cultural relativism lived out by so many morons who would be willing to go to any lengths to deny that there is a problem here with militant Islamists.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

That's YOUR perception but it is far from the truth. It only demonstrates your ignorance of reality.
You really amaze me Naga. You so willing paint an entire religion (and not even a homogeneous race) with one broad brush stroke, but woe be anyone who demonstrates the VERY SAME intolerance towards the Jewish people or Israel. They are labeled anti-Semites.
Too bad there isn't a similar word for anti-islam'ers like yourself and your ilk.

Debating with you is simply pointless, since I don't think you read posts completely. Did you read my post before you started calling me names? Why do you mention Jews in nearly every post you make?

What I said was that the perception is that Muslims are not stepping in and calling the police when they know something is up within their community. Do you understand 'perception'? My statement is pretty accurate...I did not say Muslims were not stepping in and fingering those that plan attacks, I said that people think they are not. That is the problem, many many (most) innocent perfectly awesome Muslims despise the terrorists, yet there exists a perception that all Muslims may support terrorists.

I think there needs to be a more vocal majority, but that is my opinion. So what did I say that was anti-Islam? And when did I say it? I probably have asked you before, yet you slink away never to respond.

[Mad Mel]

Wiebo Ludwig is a nice example of a terrorist who likes to do his thing in the name of God. I daresay that if he were a Muslim, he'd have gotten a much harsher ride from John Q. Public.

I seriously don't think that most Western people have any clue how many people are Muslim, and how peaceful the vast majority of those people are.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

You bomb or plan to bomb me and or my stuff, you are a dirty rotten terrorist and should rightly be beaten till death.

I dont care by what religion you claim to be or by what language you speak.

By this same logic, a lot of Iraqi and Afghani civilians have a good right to beat most of the US Air Force to death.