Terri Schiavo

[Cowperson]

A federal judge has turned down the application of the parents to reinsert the feeding tube. She will be allowed to die.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto.../BNStory/Front/

And an article in the Globe & Mail says the case has prompted Canadians to investigate "living wills" as i suggested above.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/Art...TPInternational

Is anyone else disturbed by the US government's rushed tabling of legislation.

I thought it was very disturbing that it was particular to this case, the wording apparently ensuring it would not be applied to anything else. It therefore comes across as a publicity stunt to shame Democrats who might have voted against it . . . . and certainly well removed from the normal government function to consider legislation based on application to all constituents.

Cowperson

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally posted by WCE@Mar 22 2005, 08:09 AM
As a sidebar to the obviously delicate nature of the life/death scenario...


Is anyone else disturbed by the US government's rushed tabling of legislation...In praticular the use of the term "Palm SUnday Compromise"


1. 'Republican supporters said the "Palm Sunday Compromise" seeks to protect the constitutional rights of a disabled person and rejected suggestions that political motives lay behind the last-minute maneuver.'

Palm Sunday? Good lord*, give me a break. Secular society, what was that?

I agree with what Cowperson said, yet again...but I'll add this. What's even MORE disturbing to me is that they can take this kind of decisive action over something that effects a relatively low number of people but can't get past party lines on any of the stuff they are supposed to be working on. Why was this so important? Why did this get Congress (and it was a very bi-partisan action) together and productive? Why can't they do it on stuff that is important to everyone?

[calf]

Originally posted by Displaced Flames fan@Mar 22 2005, 05:43 PM
Why was this so important? Why did this get Congress (and it was a very bi-partisan action) together and productive? Why can't they do it on stuff that is important to everyone?

Easy: it's being covered like no one's business in the media.

[notoepik]

I agree with that Dis. I am disgusted that Congress has anything at all to say in this case.

As a parent I can tell you I hope I am never faced with this sort of decision. It would be difficult, to say the least, to decide the fate of your child. Much easier to say I would pull the plug on the hubby :P

As his request is that it be pulled in the event that he is in a situation like that.

[Canada 02]

Slightly off topic, but I find it ironic that the Bush administration would pass legislation so the parents could file their lawsuit, essentially giving them some false hope to preserve what it is left of their daughters life, yet this same administration will not authorize (and even criminalizing in certain states and certain circumstances) stem cell research which would otherwise give the Schiavo's (and those in similar situations) a real and legitimate hope.

[Cube Inmate]

A point that nobody else has raised...

What irks me about this has been the misrepresentation of this as a "right to die" issue, which it clearly is not. CBC.ca had those very words, "right to die," plastered across her face all yesterday. Right to die is about people who want to kill themselves with assistance...not about a fight to kill someone else.

Beyond that one little p*ss-off, I have only random thoughts on the topic:

-If she is a vegetable, no harm in letting her live. No mental anguish going on there. No pain in starving her either. This case is all about the living...not the vegetable.

-If by some highly unlikely chance she's not a vegetable, but is actually aware and "trapped" in a body not functioning, then it would be a shame to kill her against her wishes. Yeh...fat chance of that. Shoulda thought about that when she had a chance to write down her wishes. Hard luck.

-The parents would be so much happier today if they'd agreed to let her die 7 years ago. I can see that it'd be hard letting go, but at some point you've got to take a look at the big picture.

-The medical establishment has to get over the "do no harm" BS when it's clear their intent is to let someone die. If you're going to end a life, do it with a needle and be done with it. Legalize assisted suicide for terminal patients as well. I guess the only reason it hasn't been done is the "slippery slope" argument. That has some merit I suppose.

-Interesting corrollary to the above...if the parents still have visiting rights, wouldn't the best way to keep her alive be to cut her hand off or something? Do some serious damage that would require emergency surgery, and presumably the medical establishment would be obligated to do everything in their power to keep her alive, including giving her nutrition. Legal problems?? Bah! I'm just thinking for fun.

Ridiculous case!

:wacko:

[speeds]

this Schiavo case sure is getting some press on CNN.

I guess my question is this:

Is this whole thing just some kind of sick snuff film, with people just waiting for her to die?

To me it really has that feel, kinda like Network it makes you wonder just how far we are going with this kind of stuff on TV in North America.

[kermitology]

I was watching The Hour last week and George was talking about Schiavo. He showed a rather strange and frankly (IMO) scary clip of a right wing Christian fundamentalist who was comparing the persecution of Jesus to Congress refusing to allow the tube to be re-insterted..

THIS is rediculous.. and frankly it gives good Christians a bad name in the eyes of those who don't know a lot about the faith. Now I know that most Christians are not like that, but what a crazy and tarnishing statement.

[nfotiu]

How long does it take for her to die anyway? Hasn't it been like 12 days or something now?

Why doesn't everyone take all the money they spent on her medical and legal bills and put it towards saving someone's life who can enjoy it?

It's not like this is super precedent setting or anything. Just basically a fight over who has the right to make the decision.

[kermitology]

Originally posted by nfotiu@Mar 30 2005, 03:27 PM
How long does it take for her to die anyway? Hasn't it been like 12 days or something now?

I think it's something like 3 minutes without air, 3 days without water, and 3 weeks without food..

[Thunderball]

this case really bothers me... the husband and government say its over and its time to pull the plug, cause there's essentially nothing left. Yet these morons come out and say that they should have to keep this woman alive, even though everything we equate to humanity is dead. If this was a fight about euthanasia, then I would agree that they shouldn't just let her die slowly, but these people thinking God's will or even freak chance are gonna bring this woman back are being diluted and unfair.

I think this is exactly why euthanasia needs to be legalized... I mean, we happily put down an animal in pain and say its the right thing to do, why not someone who is essentially less rational than an animal, or someone who explicitly says that they don't want to fight anymore. Time to make the right decision and not the feel good (at someone else's expense) decision.

[kermitology]

Gods way would be to pull the plug and not have science keep her alive? Wouldn't it? If it wasn't for the technology then this wouldn't even be a consideration..

[Neeper]

Originally posted by kermitology@Mar 30 2005, 02:23 PM
THIS is rediculous.. and frankly it gives good Christians a bad name in the eyes of those who don't know a lot about the faith. Now I know that most Christians are not like that, but what a crazy and tarnishing statement.

How do you think the Muslims of the world feel?

As bad as this sounds, I wish this was over already. There are more important issues with the world than this lady.

I wonder if she is "living" longer without food, because her body is hardly using any energy. It's only the brain stem that's using energy.

[kermitology]

Originally posted by Neeper+Mar 30 2005, 04:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Neeper @ Mar 30 2005, 04:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-kermitology@Mar 30 2005, 02:23 PM
THIS is rediculous.. and frankly it gives good Christians a bad name in the eyes of those who don't know a lot about the faith. Now I know that most Christians are not like that, but what a crazy and tarnishing statement.

How do you think the Muslims of the world feel?

As bad as this sounds, I wish this was over already. There are more important issues with the world than this lady.

I wonder if she is "living" longer without food, because her body is hardly using any energy. It's only the brain stem that's using energy. [/b][/quote]
Great point about Islam Neeper..

I personally think that Islam and Christianity pray to the same god.. Stupid infidels

[Resolute 14]

Originally posted by Cube Inmate@Mar 22 2005, 10:47 PM
-If by some highly unlikely chance she's not a vegetable, but is actually aware and "trapped" in a body not functioning, then it would be a shame to kill her against her wishes. Yeh...fat chance of that. Shoulda thought about that when she had a chance to write down her wishes. Hard luck.

The problem here is that her husband claims it was her wish not to be kept alive in such a situation.

Of course, even if you made no declaration either way, I can't think of any better definition of hell than to be consious and aware, yet completely unable to do or communicate anything.

I'd certantly rather be put out of my misery. In this scenario, it is possible that this woman has spent the last 15 years hoping to be released from that prison.

[nfotiu]

Originally posted by kermitology+Mar 30 2005, 09:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (kermitology @ Mar 30 2005, 09:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-nfotiu@Mar 30 2005, 03:27 PM
How long does it take for her to die anyway? Hasn't it been like 12 days or something now?

I think it's something like 3 minutes without air, 3 days without water, and 3 weeks without food.. [/b][/quote]
Are they giving her water? If so, why?

[Mr. Ski]

Originally posted by nfotiu+Mar 30 2005, 10:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (nfotiu @ Mar 30 2005, 10:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

I think it's something like 3 minutes without air, 3 days without water, and 3 weeks without food..

Are they giving her water? If so, why? [/b][/quote]
I don't believe they are. A lot of people have been arrested trying to bring her water...

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally posted by Snakeeye@Mar 30 2005, 03:21 PM
I can't think of any better definition of hell than to be consious and aware, yet completely unable to do or communicate anything.

She's not even consious and aware. The experts say she has no awareness of what is going on at all and can't even feel any pain from starving.

Also I think it takes about 2 weeks to die without food or water, so her time must be almost up.

Personally I fing it kind of sad that we even know wbout this case. It should have never gone beyond the close family and friends and has become this huge religious, political and legal issue that strangers are using to argue over their own agendas. All these people are arguing about her wishes, but I doubt her wish would have been to have millions of people fighting over it and even death threats to her husband and the judges. People have taken this story way too far.

[snappyk]

I really don't think there is a right answer here. The husband has been there for the past 15 years while she has been in this state. If she is like this why would her parents want to keep her alive if she can't even comunicate with them? But on the other hand I can see how hard it would also be on the parents as it is their child and it is hard to out live your own kids. I heard that even if they did put the feeding tube back in again that it is too late as her kidneys have now started to shut down.

[Resolute 14]

Originally posted by Winsor_Pilates+Mar 30 2005, 07:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Winsor_Pilates @ Mar 30 2005, 07:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Snakeeye@Mar 30 2005, 03:21 PM
I can't think of any better definition of hell than to be consious and aware, yet completely unable to do or communicate anything.

She's not even consious and aware. The experts say she has no awareness of what is going on at all and can't even feel any pain from starving.
[/b][/quote]
I'm aware of that. Consider the post I was replying to.