Wikileaks.org -- Tens of thousands of Afghan war docs leaked

[MelBridgeman]

either way you spin it, this, leaking of documents is not a good thing. The appropriate punishments should be handed out to the people responsible.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Locke

Please tell me you're kidding. This is absolutely asinine.

I know you're not kidding. You dont have the good sense.

Are you kidding me? Doesn't anyone see how the release of these documents and the subsequent reaction of posters here is absolutely embarrassing?

Foreign affairs are an extension of the regime's interest abroad. We own that policy. If you don't like it, then go out and make the world a better place.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by peter12

Foreign affairs are an extension of the regime's interest abroad. We own that policy. If you don't like it, then go out and make the world a better place.

Right. We own the policy, but we can't ever complain about it or challenge the validity of the policy given the circumstances at hand.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

Right. We own the policy, but we can't ever complain about it or challenge the validity of the policy given the circumstances at hand.

Really I'm embarrassed I even know Canada has troops in Afghanistan.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

Right. We own the policy, but we can't ever complain about it or challenge the validity of the policy given the circumstances at hand.

No one has discussed the validity of the policy thus far.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by peter12

No one has discussed the validity of the policy thus far.

That's irrelevant to the discussion. You said earlier a state's foreign affairs aren't the business of its citizens, which means one cannot or should not discuss the validity of the policy. Which is what people are contradicting.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

Right. We own the policy, but we can't ever complain about it or challenge the validity of the policy given the circumstances at hand.

You don't challenge the validity of the policy by releasing classified documents to the public.

I don't care what the situation is.

[mykalberta]

Good stuff on Task Force 373 - thankfully they have someone over there targeting specific people for capture or kill.

Its hardly news that US/Coalition forces cannot trust Pakistan.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

Some examples extracted from the report:

http://hyphenatedrepublic.wordpress....c-communiques/

The civilian casualties in this mess are an affront to human dignity. There are too many examples over the years to wave these incidents off as some terrorist tossing a grenade then running into a civilian's house.

But maybe we can eventually kill all the "terrorists" in these countries. I'm sure that will solve everything.

Well, simply doing nothing isn't an option either.

And, I don't think we should start invading every single country in the world that harbors terrorists. So the feasible option would be to setup a Task Force that secretly deals with terrorist threats throughout the world.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Azure

You don't challenge the validity of the policy by releasing classified documents to the public.

I don't care what the situation is.

Sadly, I agree. But at some point, when the excrement has hit the fan for the uncountable time, something has to be done.

This whole goddamn situation has gotten out of hand so long ago, you cant maintain the iron fist of secrecy forever. I'm against the leaking of these documents and whoever did it will be shot for treason, officially or otherwise, but something has to be done about the situation that we all seem to have found ourselves in.

Very shortly, this war will be 10 years old. Think about that.

[Azure]

Agreed. But we should have all known from the start it would be a tough situation. It is Afghanistan afterall.

Fact is that we elect our leaders, and to a degree we place trust in them to look after stuff like this. If the American people are pissed about how their government executes this war, maybe they should start voting out some of the idiots that are involved.

I agree that there needs to be more transparency, especially in the light of the fact that Pakistan seems to be playing up, but information about secret Task Forces NEEDS to be kept secret. Absolutely needs to be kept secret.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Azure

Agreed. But we should have all known from the start it would be a tough situation. It is Afghanistan afterall.

Fact is that we elect our leaders, and to a degree we place trust in them to look after stuff like this. If the American people are pissed about how their government executes this war, maybe they should start voting out some of the idiots that are involved.

I agree that there needs to be more transparency, especially in the light of the fact that Pakistan seems to be playing up, but information about secret Task Forces NEEDS to be kept secret. Absolutely needs to be kept secret.

I agree.

But obviously someone is making their stance clear, and that someone has/had some pretty serious access.

I dont like that this has been leaked, its bad for everyone. I like the fact that this has been run like someone's private war for a decade even less.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Locke

Sadly, I agree. But at some point, when the excrement has hit the fan for the uncountable time, something has to be done.

This whole goddamn situation has gotten out of hand so long ago, you cant maintain the iron fist of secrecy forever. I'm against the leaking of these documents and whoever did it will be shot for treason, officially or otherwise, but something has to be done about the situation that we all seem to have found ourselves in.

Very shortly, this war will be 10 years old. Think about that.

Afghanistan has always been a tar baby and a horrible place to fight a war.

In an asymetrical war there are going to be higher then average civilian casualties, its sad but its true, especially based around how the Taliban fights the war.

To me, and it may make me sound cold, but there have been according to that site a little over 300 hundred civillian casualties broken into about 170 killed and 150 wounded, I think. In terms of civillian casualties in a war zone thats very low.

I doubt that the standing policy by any of the nations in there is to attack civillians or fight a war of extermination. To me it looks like the civillian casualties are being caused by decisions made at a unit and sub unit level based on the environment that the troops find themselves in. The question that becomes prevelant is "Is that fixable?" Sure but the fix puts the soldiers in a more dangerous environment based on the tactics of the enemy.

In terms of oversight, its not like Congress or the senate are unaware of the war diaries since they have to be informed of special operations even if they're informed after the fact.

In terms of the leak, he's probably going to regret the release documents, its a serious breach of security that will probably put lives in danger and exposes tactics and assets in use that should stay a secret. I would bet that everyone who has access to this documentation is having a very unpleasant monday.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Locke

I agree.

But obviously someone is making their stance clear, and that someone has/had some pretty serious access.

I dont like that this has been leaked, its bad for everyone. I like the fact that this has been run like someone's private war for a decade even less.

No that someone isn't making their stance clear as he or she is not standing behind the leaking of the documents.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Azure

You don't challenge the validity of the policy by releasing classified documents to the public.

I don't care what the situation is.

And without the whistleblowers, none of us pukes would know what is going on over there.

It's really as simple as that.

Otherwise, all we'd know is that Oceania is at war with Eastasia and that we're the good guys.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

And without the whistleblowers, none of us pukes would know what is going on over there.

It's really as simple as that.

Otherwise, all we'd know is that Oceania is at war with Eastasia and that we're the good guys.

Easy with the Orwell there.

I'll take this attitude as a more mature one and maybe even the one that I currently take.

[HPLovecraft]

The "secret" TF no longer exists. Its activities are no more. All active secret goings on weren't leaked, as the Wikileak webpage clearly states. These docs are all routine incidents recorded by the military.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

And without the whistleblowers, none of us pukes would know what is going on over there.

It's really as simple as that.

Otherwise, all we'd know is that Oceania is at war with Eastasia and that we're the good guys.

If Congress would be doing their job as an 'oversight' we wouldn't need whistleblowers to reveal classified information in order to 'expose' all these horrible things.

What exactly changed now that the average civilian knows all this stuff?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

The "secret" TF no longer exists. Its activities are no more. All active secret goings on weren't leaked, as the Wikileak webpage clearly states. These docs are all routine incidents recorded by the military.

Yeah, and what about all the other classified information they have access to that they're not leaking?

Who is stopping the Russians or Chinese from breaking into Wikileaks headquarters and stealing it all?

The fact that they have access to it is wrong, and I hope their source is shot by the firing squad for treason.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Azure

If Congress would be doing their job as an 'oversight' we wouldn't need whistleblowers to reveal classified information in order to 'expose' all these horrible things.

What exactly changed now that the average civilian knows all this stuff?

1) There have been multiple revelations to suggest that Congress is not explicitly briefed on all aspects. I can cite multiple examples as I'm sure you can as well. The trend has been clearly for the executive to hoard the actual policy details.

2) What changes is that people withdraw their vocal support, withdraw their votes, and increase their reluctance to let their children go overseas and fight this nebulous battle.

I'd also like to chime in regarding your other question (not directed at me) asking "Who is stopping the Russians or Chinese from breaking into Wikileaks headquarters and stealing it all? "

In a moment of candor, I'd be willing to bet that the Chinese and Russian administrations couldn't care less about the specifics of US operations in this region *provided* that those operations continue. Nothing like watching your economic rival waste his resources (human and financial) in a faraway land on an effort which, almost by definition, is creating more of the exact problem that they're there to fight.