Calgary workers under investigation for horsing around

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by puckluck

Just because they are horsing around doesn't mean they aren't doing their job right. They are stupid as bricks but still know how to build your million dollar condos. Probably the only thing they are smart at.

This isn't a shot at trades people because I'm one myself, but I know many people in the trades who are dumb as door knobs, but are highly experienced and do a great job in their work.

The general quality of construction from the boom years says otherwise.

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by frinkprof

The general quality of construction from the boom years says otherwise.

The quality of construction has been going downhill way before the boom. It mostly has to do with the cheaper materials being used IMO.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by puckluck

Just because they are horsing around doesn't mean they aren't doing their job right. They are stupid as bricks but still know how to build your million dollar condos. Probably the only thing they are smart at.

This isn't a shot at trades people because I'm one myself, but I know many people in the trades who are dumb as door knobs, but are highly experienced and do a great job in their work.

The point Table5 made was that during the boom time companies were so desperate to have people work for them they took on guys with little or zero experience. Building and houses were made, but poorly. Even the skilled guy, the guys that were doing it for years let their work slide because their ways always a next project, and the faster they got one house up, the faster they could move on to the next pay check.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by puckluck

The quality of construction has been going downhill way before the boom. It mostly has to do with the cheaper materials being used IMO.

While true, when there is an extreme demand for workers like during a boom period, sub-par people get hired to fill up demand. People who previously would've never made the cut are put into positions they didn't belong in, and thus, more than likely do a sub-par job.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

The point Table5 made was that during the boom time companies were so desperate to have people work for them they took on guys with little or zero experience. Building and houses were made, but poorly. Even the skilled guy, the guys that were doing it for years let their work slide because their ways always a next project, and the faster they got one house up, the faster they could move on to the next pay check.

Right, but it works both ways IMO. When companies realized that they couldn't pay all of their high skill employees, many of them got their walking papers. This left the lower income, lower skilled employees to pick up the slack.

[MJM]

Originally Posted by puckluck

Just because they are horsing around doesn't mean they aren't doing their job right. They are stupid as bricks but still know how to build your million dollar condos. Probably the only thing they are smart at.

This isn't a shot at trades people because I'm one myself, but I know many people in the trades who are dumb as door knobs, but are highly experienced and do a great job in their work.

Actually, horsing around means they aren't doing their job right. They could cost their companies huge money in fines and penalties and could lose valuable permits.

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

The point Table5 made was that during the boom time companies were so desperate to have people work for them they took on guys with little or zero experience. Building and houses were made, but poorly. Even the skilled guy, the guys that were doing it for years let their work slide because their ways always a next project, and the faster they got one house up, the faster they could move on to the next pay check.

Ok I definitely agree with that as I even had to hire some inexperienced workers because of how busy I was, but I always made sure the job was done right.

And even if I didn't the builder was so strict they would make you fix any deficiencies. Most of the bigger builders were fine and their quality stayed the same(even if that quality wasn't good from the get go). The smaller builders is where the problems start. I haven't dealt with smaller home builders much, but I've heard horror stories.

The government is partly to blame for bringing in so many people from over seas that had no clue how homes here were built. As long as the businesses had their workers the government was happy. Also, not to mention all the BS paperwork that was done to bring people from overseas that had no intention of working or leaving which is a totally different story.

[Traditional_Ale]

My neighbour is a general contractor and some of his 'crew' are his roomates. They recently finished a massive job in Chinook Mall. I went around for a beer the day they finished and it turns out everyone was arguing over the shoddy workmanship and how this guy sucks and that guy blows and this chick doesn't work worth s***.

Turns out they did not have a single entry on the deficiency list. Not a single one. Yet they all think everyone sucks at their job.

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by MJM

Actually, horsing around means they aren't doing their job right. They could cost their companies huge money in fines and penalties and could lose valuable permits.

I meant the actual job they are doing. Horsing around isn't going to jeopardize the quality of work.

[MJM]

Originally Posted by puckluck

Ok I definitely agree with that as I even had to hire some inexperienced workers because of how busy I was, but I always made sure the job was done right.

And even if I didn't the builder was so strict they would make you fix any deficiencies. Most of the bigger builders were fine and their quality stayed the same(even if that quality wasn't good from the get go). The smaller builders is where the problems start. I haven't dealt with smaller home builders much, but I've heard horror stories.

The government is partly to blame for bringing in so many people from over seas that had no clue how homes here were built. As long as the businesses had their workers the government was happy. Also, not to mention all the BS paperwork that was done to bring people from overseas that had no intention of working or leaving which is a totally different story.

Anyone in the industry i've talked to has said the exact opposite about foreign workers. Hard working, extremely experienced and don't have the "F you i'll go down the street and get a better job at the next site" attitude prevailent in today's tradesmen.

I was hoping the recession would clear some of these morons out, but clearly it hasn't.

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

My neighbour is a general contractor and some of his 'crew' are his roomates. They recently finished a massive job in Chinook Mall. I went around for a beer the day they finished and it turns out everyone was arguing over the shoddy workmanship and how this guy sucks and that guy blows and this chick doesn't work worth s***.

Turns out they did not have a single entry on the deficiency list. Not a single one. Yet they all think everyone sucks at their job.

Welcome to the trades world where everyone but yourself sucks at their job.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by puckluck

Welcome to the trades world where everyone but yourself sucks at their job.

This is true. Every other guy is an idiot or should be fired. This job was f-d, that other project was full of mistakes, etc. A lot of that sort of talk is BS and is just part of unwinding.

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by MJM

Anyone in the industry i've talked to has said the exact opposite about foreign workers. Hard working, extremely experienced and don't have the "F you i'll go down the street and get a better job at the next site" attitude prevailent in today's tradesmen.

They are definitely hard working, but how can they be extremely experienced?

They are coming from a country where the walls are made from concrete and sometimes dirt. They have no clue on how their jobs are untill they actually do the job. Many of my friends familes sponsored people from their country (Lebanon) to work and none had a clue on how things worked, but are still working 6 days a week 12 hour days. They are obviously more experienced now than they were 3-4 years ago when they came, but I wouldn't say they are extremely experienced as they had no experience before coming here.

They are definitely the most hard working honest people you will meet though.

[MJM]

Originally Posted by puckluck

They are definitely hard working, but how can they be extremely experienced?

They are coming from a country where the walls are made from concrete and sometimes dirt. They have no clue on how their jobs are untill they actually do the job. Many of my friends familes sponsored people from their country (Lebanon) to work and none had a clue on how things worked, but are still working 6 days a week 12 hour days. They are obviously more experienced now than they were 3-4 years ago when they came, but I wouldn't say they are extremely experienced as they had no experience before coming here.

They are definitely the most hard working honest people you will meet though.

Depends what country you get them from. I had a client hire a lot from Mexico (all worked the same job there), and all were spectacular and already well-trained. If he could have chose between replacing all his work staff and brining more up, let's just say it wouldn't have been a good day for the locals. This had nothing to do with wages either because he paid the Mexican the same as the Canadians. He'd simply figured he got more work, better quality, and less BS with the foreign workers.

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by MJM

Depends what country you get them from. I had a client hire a lot from Mexico (all worked the same job there), and all were spectacular and already well-trained. If he could have chose between replacing all his work staff and brining more up, let's just say it wouldn't have been a good day for the locals. This had nothing to do with wages either because he paid the Mexican the same as the Canadians. He'd simply figured he got more work, better quality, and less BS with the foreign workers.

I'm sure there are people who know what they are doing, but the government was handing out work visas like they were going out of style to anyone.

[MJM]

Originally Posted by puckluck

I'm sure there are people who know what they are doing, but the government was handing out work visas like they were going out of style to anyone.

You do realize you can't just hand out work visa's right? You actually have to prove that you can't fill the position with a Canadian, or that a Canadian doesn't possess the required skillset to complete the job.

Many of these foreign workers were sent packing with the recession unless they had acquired permenent residence. I know where we work when the layoffs hit, anyone that was on a work visa had to be let go first regardless of the job performance of Canadians in the workplace.

This is a policy I fully agree with and support, but to say the government just hands out work visas is not correct. There has to be a need, and you have to prove this need and the ability of the foreign worker to fill it.

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by MJM

You do realize you can't just hand out work visa's right? You actually have to prove that you can't fill the position with a Canadian, or that a Canadian doesn't possess the required skillset to complete the job.

Many of these foreign workers were sent packing with the recession unless they had acquired permenent residence. I know where we work when the layoffs hit, anyone that was on a work visa had to be let go first regardless of the job performance of Canadians in the workplace.

This is a policy I fully agree with and support, but to say the government just hands out work visas is not correct. There has to be a need, and you have to prove this need and the ability of the foreign worker to fill it.

All you have to do for is set up a ad on a government website they give you and when people call you just tell them off and give them reasons they are not qualified or you simply don't answer the phone.

I don't think you realize how many people were actually brought over on work visas and how many are still working here. It was easy as pie to bring someone over as I know about 10 people who sponsored someone to come work for them and not just in the construction industry.

I can understand the bigger companies having stricter policies, but most tradesmen are just small LTD companies.

The government did just hand out work visas with little proof they were needed. The same way construction workers get paid umemployment wages during the winter by filling out BS papers that they can't find another job while they work under the table for other people. The government is easily tricked.

[red '00]

Remember, this is the same work ethic that's building all your million dollar condos. I'd definitely stay away from the majority of "boom times" real estate. If the attitude is this crappy on the job site, it's sure to surface in the quality construction.

One would hope, that with the slowdown of the economy, the crap will be weeded out a bit.

Absolutely. I used to do some trade work when the boom was really on. You wouldn't believe how many unskilled idiots were actually at work every day on some very expensive places.

Short cuts around every corner, poor quality materials and construction... And don't even get me started on the crack and meth addicts that made their money pretending they knew what they were doing.

[Huntingwhale]

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by red '00

Absolutely. I used to do some trade work when the boom was really on. You wouldn't believe how many unskilled idiots were actually at work every day on some very expensive places.

Short cuts around every corner, poor quality materials and construction... And don't even get me started on the crack and meth addicts that made their money pretending they knew what they were doing.

Same thing happened in Vancouver. I know a few people stuck with leaky condos now.