Mac mini Updated, Hello HDMI

[Hack&Lube]

I usually like Hardforums. I don't have any links to any specific builds on hands but I have seen some great systems that are as small as routers and pretty cheap as well.

http://hardforum.com/forumdisplay.ph...c&daysprune=-1

http://hardforum.com/forumdisplay.ph...c&daysprune=-1

http://hardforum.com/forumdisplay.ph...c&daysprune=-1

[Hack&Lube]

Here's a pretty awesome little combo.



Has everything you need already included. Wifi, bluetooth, IR remote, CPU, DC power brick, vga out, hdmi out, RCA out, digital out, toslink optical out. All you need is an HDD/SSD and maybe a low profile BluRay drive.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-635-_-Product

[FanIn80]

Wow. $200 for an Asus board, a netbook processor and an infrared receiver.

Can't wait to put that baby in my living room...

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Here's a pretty awesome little combo.



Has everything you need already included. Wifi, bluetooth, IR remote, CPU, DC power brick, vga out, hdmi out, RCA out, digital out, toslink optical out. All you need is an HDD/SSD and maybe a low profile BluRay drive.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-635-_-Product

Bwahahahaha...sounds like a real winner:

- “The first one shipped to me died two days after arrival. The replacement also died hours after arrival. Overall newegg handled the replacement quite well. I decided to give it another try. The third one has survived now for 5 days and seems to be fine”

- "Processor is noticeably slow “

- "Be easy with the connectors. SATA port pulled from MB and wireless antenna is flimsy where connected to back plate. ... made the board more fragile than even other MicroATX boards I've used.”

- "Netflix HD playback is terrible”

- "The integrated remote is laughable with MCE7”

- "Digital audio is only 2 channels over SPDIF, and 1 channel only over HDMI (although both channels are active, I can only hear the left speaker) - this after installing the latest BIOS & drivers, as other reviewers suggested. Analog audio (if your recevier accepts it) is 5.1, but it sounds kind of flat.”


Seriously - call the AppleTV and the Mac Mini overpriced if you want, but when I come home at night I don’t have time to worry/deal with the crap above.

On second thought, for $60 more, after reading those comments, the AppleTV is an ABSOLUTE BARGAIN compared to what my time is worth, for a home theatre playback device. And that $60 also gets me a case, hard drive, RAM, etc.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Wow. $200 for an Asus board, a netbook processor and an infrared receiver.

Can't wait to put that baby in my living room...

I agree 100%.

Add in the case and software and you are spending at least 2 times as much for what you can buy as a stand alone unit in a WD HD TV, O!Play or Apple TV.

Sure it has added functionality, but do you really want that functionality on your TV when you have it on your desktop computer and/or laptop? The only difference might be is the ability to add a video capture card to make it a full fledged DVR replacement, but in that small form factor you would be very limited on that front.

I want a box I can plug into my TV that works for watching my digitized DVD collection and playing my music.

[FanIn80]

Haha awesome. I'm glad someone else posted those comments from there. I was going to, but we all know how that would have turned out.


Edit:

Originally Posted by Rathji

I agree 100%.

Add in the case and software and you are spending at least 2 times as much for what you can buy as a stand alone unit in a WD HD TV, O!Play or Apple TV.

I know exactly what you mean. I was adding up all the stuff it doesn't come with, in addition to replacing some of the crap it does come with... it was going to cost more than a Mac mini. What's the point of that?

I'm all for saving money, but eventually you get to a point where "saving money" actually turns into just throwing what you do spend in the garbage... which is pretty much the exact opposite of saving money.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Haha awesome. I'm glad someone else posted those comments from there. I was going to, but we all know how that would have turned out.

Had to redeem myself in your eyes

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I know exactly what you mean. I was adding up all the stuff it doesn't come with, in addition to replacing some of the crap it does come with... it was going to cost more than a Mac mini. What's the point of that?

I'm all for saving money, but eventually you get to a point where "saving money" actually turns into just throwing what you do spend in the garbage... which is pretty much the exact opposite of saving money.

Oh crap!

Just agreed with FanIn80 in a thread about Apple products.

This is scary.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by sclitheroe

Had to redeem myself in your eyes

It's all good, man. I was being a dick that day anyway.


Edit:

Originally Posted by Rathji

Oh crap!

Just agreed with FanIn80 in a thread about Apple products.

This is scary.

Muwahaha.

(This is where I need a bigger version of CaptainCrunch's avatar... the one with Vader saying you get a free toaster for coming to the dark side!)

[Hack&Lube]

Nice cherry picking the newegg comments and leaving out the caveats that went with each sentence (ie: playback is slow..<yoursnip>...because of silverlight is crap) or the pros that go with them. Saving money is worth every penny to me and I enjoy working problems out of tech. You buy one of these things because you want to build your own computer and want something customized with your own parts and own design and not having a silver/white box like everyone else. Of course it's not for the average person or for someone whom this is not a hobby and thinks their time is worth more than what they will put into it. I build these things because it's fun, not because I actually desperately want a home theatre/media computer as something I will use often. I don't even watch TV. If that's what you want, by all means, go Mac Mini and Apple TV.

sclitheroe, I always thought you were one of the most knowledgeable IT and tech guys here. I'm disappointed in you, I expected more objectivity. Of course if you only post the cons from the pros and cons reviews of a low end, low volume, niche product you will get a similar list, but you even cut out certain qualifiers for those cons although I understand where you are coming from in that something with apparent flaws like this is not worth your time.

This is the whole problem with all of this, FanIn80 is always defending himself by saying he's only posting about stuff that he thinks is cool but once something pops up that is different the flaming comes in. I only posted it because I think the ITX format is really cool. This is a tightly packed budget system with it's pitfalls. Those are almost always accepted things with this market segment. There are definetely ways to build much more perfected and cheaper systems.

I realize you Apple guys are sick of the de facto criticism of Apple being overpriced but I've never said there's anything wrong with paying for something you think is worth it. I just always refuse to buy things that everyone else is buying and I always go for the alternatives, even if it consumes time and money for me, that's where I take my enjoyment.

You guys are a real piece of work. It's Apple everything. Once someone posts something you feel is hostile you go out of your way to burn it down. Someone posts that they like flash, you go and post how much it sucks on other systems. Someone posts a security flaw that is basically AT&T's fault and not Apples, you go out of your way to counter that by not discussing the flaw but by making an ad hominem attack on the "hacker" who turns out to not be a very savoury guy but how is that relevant? Someone posts an alternative to an Apple product (PC based home theatre system, Android based tablet, etc.) and that gets attacked right away too. You can drop the victim label because Apple guys are the bullies now. And goddamnit, I am still typing on a Apple keyboard! :P I don't hate Apple because of what they make. I have several Apple products in the house right now. I hate Apple because of their critical mass of users pushing their way around.

-edit, oh wow I think I get how FanIn80 feels now when people slag stuff he thinks is cool. The difference is I think I'm not going to post things I think are cool here anymore. It's just the wrong userbase. Rename the place the Apple forums and get it over with.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

You buy one of these things because you want to build your own computer and want something customized with your own parts and own design and not having a silver/white box like everyone else. Of course it's not for the average person or for someone whom this is not a hobby and thinks their time is worth more than what they will put into it. I build these things because it's fun, not because I actually desperately want a home theatre/media computer as something I will use often.

I am pretty much the definition of a tech guy. I have 4 working computers within 3 feet of me right now. I will rebuild my server and install a new flavour of linux on a whim and not even think twice about it.

I do think this is an interesting product that might be a lot of fun to build. In fact I might consider getting one to make my mom a PC that doesn't take up her entire desk. However, I do not see it as a value item when it comes to a media PC since it costs to much for what it is (and so would a mac mini in this case as well).

You guys are a real piece of work. It's Apple everything. Once someone posts something you feel is hostile you go out of your way to burn it down.

I might not be the furthest thing there is from a Apple enthusiast, but someone would have to be nuts to call me a fanboy. The only Apple product I own is a 2 year old iPod nano. I never plan on buying a Mac desktop or laptop. I might end up buying an iPad in a year or 2 when the dust settles on the tablet startups, but it won't be because it was made by Apple. It will be because it is the best value for my money.

Just realize that while there might be fanboys on this thread with biased or unreasonable expectations of the product you just posted, not everyone who was not totally impressed with it was in that group.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Here's a pretty awesome little combo.



Has everything you need already included. Wifi, bluetooth, IR remote, CPU, DC power brick, vga out, hdmi out, RCA out, digital out, toslink optical out. All you need is an HDD/SSD and maybe a low profile BluRay drive.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-635-_-Product

Cool - thanks for posting this. Obviously I've got a fair bit of homework to do but this is a good starting point.

[Russic]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

I realize you Apple guys are sick of the de facto criticism of Apple being overpriced but I've never said there's anything wrong with paying for something you think is worth it. I just always refuse to buy things that everyone else is buying and I always go for the alternatives, even if it consumes time and money for me, that's where I take my enjoyment.

That right there is going to separate you from the Apple pack immediately. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but it is going to initiate a debate. Anytime you get a debate going in the computer realm things can get aggressive, this is nothing shocking. You can stop sharing what you feel is cool, but notice that while people did disagree with you, several thought it was interesting.

Obviously if you post something without a shell that may require tinkering Apple people are going to rip on it because it's opposite of the Apple philosophy. For the amount you two argue, you and FanIn80 are actually pretty similar (different sides of the same coin). If you guys got married it could be a hilarious sitcom.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

sclitheroe, I always thought you were one of the most knowledgeable IT and tech guys here. I'm disappointed in you, I expected more objectivity. Of course if you only post the cons from the pros and cons reviews of a low end, low volume, niche product you will get a similar list, but you even cut out certain qualifiers for those cons although I understand where you are coming from in that something with apparent flaws like this is not worth your time.

I am

The issue I am highlighting though is that the vast majority of these mini ITX systems are absolute GARBAGE. I’ve had them. I’ve been doing fanless for years, well before Atom and Ion and all the other niceties people have now in the space.

You don’t start getting into decent build quality in the mini-ITX space until you move up to the more industrial stuff from a place like logicsupply.com, and then, you are paying more, and you move firmly into the financial space occupied by the Apple products, both the Mini, and the ATV, which are sterling examples of mini sized computers done right.

It’s fine and well to learn, and it can be fun to play with ghetto hardware and get it to work, but I will tell you this right now. Eventually you will realize that these low end bits and pieces are made cheaply (connectors pulling off mobo’s - really?), the drivers are almost an afterthought, the reliability is crap, and they generally never work as advertised. Probably you are at a stage in your life where you have tons of time to sink into futzing around with this kind of hardware - if so, awesome (and if not, I apologize for making the leap in judgement). But eventually, at some point, you will be able to put a financial figure on your time, and realize that spending an afternoon with quality hardware (Apple or otherwise) trumps playing around with crap, simply because you have so many things competing for your time (work, kids, guitar, domestic life, walking the dog, the list gets endless quickly)

So overall, in the context of this thread, its not that I’m close minded about mini-ITX bottom of the barrel hardware, its that that level of hardware barely enters into the equation.

And keep hacking on hardware and software and trying things, by all means! It’s what makes us good at tech! But realize that simply futzing around with someone’s crap implementation of tech (crap hardware, crap drivers, crap reliability) doesn’t do very much to improve your skills, and isn’t the most effective use of time if that is one of your goals.

[sclitheroe]

While we are debating the merits of building/buying various home theatre PC approaches, check this out for inspiration: http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories...storyID=942480

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Russic

Obviously if you post something without a shell that may require tinkering Apple people are going to rip on it because it's opposite of the Apple philosophy.

Actually, it's not about the box and the tinkering. I love building computers. It's that fact that this thing is nothing more than a netbook without a screen. What's so awesome about that?

And for Hack&Lube to wig out about Apple people not liking his netbook-without-a-screen... why post it in an Apple thread in the first place? If it was it in its own thread or even just a thread about building PCs, I would understand not liking the reaction he got... but yeesh. You gotta pick your audience, man.

Edit: Actually a thread about build-your-own media centers would be pretty awesome.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Edit: Actually a thread about build-your-own media centers would be pretty awesome.

Or a thread about building home network appliances more generically - I’m seriously considering using a board not unlike what H&L posted to build a NAS. Most of the same techniques and pre-build research apply to building a home theatre appliance as well.

[FanIn80]

Hey that's actually a neat idea.

[Phaneuf3]

Agreed. I'd get a lot of use out of a thread like that but my research and experience into such subjects are pretty out of date.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Mac mini Server would mean no more converting or worrying about file formats. Even annoying containers like MKV wouldn't be a pain in the ass anymore.

Not to mention the whole computer side of things. Get the Apple (or any other manufacturer's) bluetooth keyboard and mouse, and bam! Screw trying to surf the Net on your TV, using a PS3 or whatever. Do it on a real computer in 1080P.

You still get all the iTunes stuff that you do on your ATV.

I'm a little slow with my reply.

Personally speaking. It seems like over kill to me. Both in terms of hardware and especially price. While the Mac Mini is a good HTPC for geeks it's too much for the average person. I am sure Apple could increase the hardware specs in a new version of the Apple TV to run 1080p, other video formats and streaming. Throw some new software in there, probably the iOS to run apps and it'll be the best set top box out there. But it can't be $700, that will never catch on.