Ont. police track suspicious fertilizer purchase

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

When you say according to some, are you talking about Randy Trochmann and his brother claiming that rescuers pulled explosives out of the building?

No. I have not read about Randy Trochmann.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

I feel sorry for people like mikeytheredneck.

Oh, don't stop there........

Why do you feel sorry for me?

[HOOT]

He could be growing a large amount of goodie goodness.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by transplant99

OK..first off McVeigh was interviewed extensively and it has been aired where he was anything but hiding what had happened. he answered every single question as to why and how the whole thing went down. He never ever mentioned he had been in there previously, which would beg the question...why would he hide something like that? Especially if it somehow impicated anyone associated with the government whom he despised so vehemently.



http://www.livedash.com/transcript/t...9_2010/195892/



Secondly...people die every day whether or not they were witnesses to an explosion that occurred 15 years ago.

Its unbelievable how every single large incident has a conspiracy attached to it. Amusing if nothing else.

Definately amusing....and fun to talk about.

Apparently the "McVeigh Tapes" show on MSNBC have some conflicting info. in there......(our first tip should have been the fact that it was produced by MSNBC).

http://www.infowars.com/the-mcveigh-...riot-movement/

"U.S. Judge Wayne Alley had an office in the Murrah Building. He was tipped off by the Justice Department that there would be a terrorist attack on a federal building. Judge Alley’s statement about this was published in the Portland Oregonian. The Oklahoma City Fire Department was also allegedly warned by the FBI the weekend before the attack."

This part about the deaths of witnesses and first responders could be a coincidence, but you have to wonder....

"A significant number of people related to the OK City bombing have mysteriously died, including Oklahoma City police officers Terrance Yeakey, Gordon Martin and Ken Griffin, a number of Oklahoma City firefighters, Dr. H. Don Chumley, GSA employee Mike Loudenslager and others."

http://www.okcbombing.net/News%20Art...udenslager.htm

Other observations:

"Joe Harp, a man with military explosives experience, stated in an affidavit there “was a strong sulfur smell in the air that was very reminiscent of the gas-enhanced ‘Daisy cutter’ bombs I am familiar with from my tours of duty in Vietnam… It was not an ANFO smell.”

"An affidavit signed by Tiffany Bible, a paramedic for the Emergency Medical Services Authority, indicates she overheard an ATF agent and members of law enforcement discussing the removal of a fifty pound bomb from a gas line inside the building."

[mikey_the_redneck]

and more.......from the same article..

"A Department of Defense Atlantic Command Memo issued 36 hours after the event reported that a “second bomb was disarmed [and] a third bomb was evacuated.” This was confirmed by a U.S. Forces Command Daily Log that stated at least two additional bombs “were located [in the] vicinity [of the] explosion site. Evidently intended for the rescuers.” Oklahoma Highway Patrol radio logs also reported secondary bombs at the site."


"Retired Air Force Brigadier General Benton K. Partin, former commander of the Air Force Armament Technology Laboratory, and a 25-year expert in the design and development of bombs. “[R]einforced concrete targets in large buildings are hard targets to blast. I know of no way possible to reproduce the apparent building damage through simply a truck bomb effort,” Partin said. General Partin’s request to have the bomb site preserved in order to examine the possibility of a second explosion was ignored by the government."


And this is for you CaptainCrunch: (supposedly de-bunked?)

"In May 1995, former Senior Special Agent in Charge of the FBI in Los Angeles, Ted Gunderson, produced an evaluation of the bombing that revealed two distinct seismograph events. Dr. Raymond Brown, a senior geophysicist, analyzed the seismograph data and concluded there was a bomb inside the building. Geophysicist Charles Mankin, Director of the University of Oklahoma’s Geological Survey, also said two explosions occurred, the second coming approximately eight seconds after the first. The U.S. Geological Survey decided not released this data."

[mikey_the_redneck]

"Maddow explains how McVeigh was tracked down by a VIN number found on the axle of the Ryder truck he rented. “No rear axle on any vehicle manufactured in America is imprinted with a VIN, even after recent legislation forcing manufacturers to place multiple VINS on the engine, firewall, and frame to discourage chop shops,” notes Team Infinity. “When queried, a spokesman for Ryder told reporters than it does not imprint additional VINS on its trucks. The only conceivable number available on a rear axle is a part number, but a part number couldn’t lead to the identification of a specific vehicle.”

This is real juicy:

"In 2005, the AFP reported that a raid on the one-time home of Terry Nichols turned up evidence implicating federal agents in the bombing. “A source has told AFP that bomb components discovered at the former home of the OKC bombing accomplice have been linked to a federal informant who investigators believe lied during the trial of Timothy McVeigh,” Pat Shannan wrote for the American Free Press on April 10, 2005. Nichols pointed to a an FBI informant named Roger Moore."

"In 2007, Salt Lake City attorney Jesse Trentadue put the final nail in the coffin that is the OK City Bombing conspiracy. “The attorney who was able to obtain a declaration from Terry Nichols fingering an FBI agent as directing Timothy McVeigh says that the documents attached to the affidavit indicate that the Oklahoma City bombing was an inside job.”


I'm sure there is dis-info. on both sides, but I definately do NOT believe the "official" story, and I certainly do not believe it was just some fertilizer bomb that took that building out.

[jayswin]

You certainly love your conspiracy theories, eh?

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by flameswin

You certainly love your conspiracy theories, eh?

Well, it is likely that nobody will find out exactly what happened, but yeah.....I do. 9/11 is by far my favourite...I was kind of young when the Murrah building was bombed though..

Here is an article talking to Jane Graham, who claims to have seen McVeigh with others at the Murrah building beforehand...

http://www.reddirtreport.com/news.php?id=15077

Interesting to say the least...

Audio here:
http://www.infowars.com/murrah-feder...th-alex-jones/

[T@T]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Oh god...

People still think it was just McVeighs' little fertilizer bomb that took out the Murrah building?

Let me get this straight, are you saying a truck load full of ammonium nitrate and diesel fuel makes a "little" bomb?

[RougeUnderoos]

How much does a bag of this stuff cost? Seems kind of strange to me that you can go into a store like that and buy 1600 kilos of it with cash and no questions asked.

[Rathji]

I can understand why people think 9-11 was an inside job, I don't agree with the lunacy behind it, but I can see how it might make sense because there was something to gain ie public support to invade some uncooperative oil producing nations and make some ultra controlling laws.

I just can't see what the government would have to gain by saying "hey, this guy blew up the building with this truck bomb" when it was really the exact same guy blowing it up with C4 AND a truck bomb. What is the thought process people are going through when they think this is the lie being told? What is the motive?

If people knew that C4 was involved they might suddenly get pissed about the restrictions being placed on buying 65 bags of fertilizer? Are there a lot of horticulturists out there being unfairly persecuted and having their livelihood and green lawn taken away by this heinous restriction?

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by T@T

Let me get this straight, are you saying a truck load full of ammonium nitrate and diesel fuel makes a "little" bomb?

Not at all....but the Murrah building isn't a little building either..

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

How much does a bag of this stuff cost? Seems kind of strange to me that you can go into a store like that and buy 1600 kilos of it with cash and no questions asked.

We get ours delivered.

I'll ask dad if he has to produce I.D......

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Rathji

I just can't see what the government would have to gain by saying "hey, this guy blew up the building with this truck bomb" when it was really the exact same guy blowing it up with C4 AND a truck bomb. What is the thought process people are going through when they think this is the lie being told? What is the motive?

I had similar thoughts......

Supposedly, Timothy McVeigh said Ruby Ridge and Waco were the reasons for the bombing......

It could have been used as a political tool to smear the patriot groups, and far right-wing conservatives...

From the wikipedia page on OKC bombing...

"Motivated by his hatred of the federal government and angered by what he perceived as its mishandling of the Waco Siege (1993) and the Ruby Ridge incident (1992), McVeigh timed his attack to coincide with the second anniversary of the deaths at Waco."

Further:

"The three shared interests in survivalism, opposed gun control, and supported the militia movement.[20][21] They expressed anger at the federal government's handling of the 1992 Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) standoff with Randy Weaver at Ruby Ridge as well as the Waco Siege."

So you could see how that would influence public opinion of militias and right wing "patriot" types. Hmm, I read elsewhere that there was no evidence actually linking McVeigh to any militias....

"Potok revealed that in 1996 there were approximately 858 domestic militias and other antigovernment groups but the number had dropped to 152 by 2004."

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

and more.......from the same article..

"A Department of Defense Atlantic Command Memo issued 36 hours after the event reported that a “second bomb was disarmed [and] a third bomb was evacuated.” This was confirmed by a U.S. Forces Command Daily Log that stated at least two additional bombs “were located [in the] vicinity [of the] explosion site. Evidently intended for the rescuers.” Oklahoma Highway Patrol radio logs also reported secondary bombs at the site."


"Retired Air Force Brigadier General Benton K. Partin, former commander of the Air Force Armament Technology Laboratory, and a 25-year expert in the design and development of bombs. “[R]einforced concrete targets in large buildings are hard targets to blast. I know of no way possible to reproduce the apparent building damage through simply a truck bomb effort,” Partin said. General Partin’s request to have the bomb site preserved in order to examine the possibility of a second explosion was ignored by the government."


And this is for you CaptainCrunch: (supposedly de-bunked?)

"In May 1995, former Senior Special Agent in Charge of the FBI in Los Angeles, Ted Gunderson, produced an evaluation of the bombing that revealed two distinct seismograph events. Dr. Raymond Brown, a senior geophysicist, analyzed the seismograph data and concluded there was a bomb inside the building. Geophysicist Charles Mankin, Director of the University of Oklahoma’s Geological Survey, also said two explosions occurred, the second coming approximately eight seconds after the first. The U.S. Geological Survey decided not released this data."

Except that Mankin also said that the two seismic events were caused by the same shockwave splitting due to densities in the soil. He also goes on to discuss that the additional length of the seismic event was caused by the harmonics in the buildings support during the explosion.

His allegory being based around two vehicles leaving at the same time, one taking the paved highway, the other taking the service road running beside the highway. They're going to arrive at their destinations at different times due to the differences between the highway and the service road.

[CaptainCrunch]

recreation of truck bombing goes after General Partin's theory

http://sci.tech-archive.net/Archive/.../msg00952.html

"In 2007, Salt Lake City attorney Jesse Trentadue put the final nail in the coffin that is the OK City Bombing conspiracy. “The attorney who was able to obtain a declaration from Terry Nichols fingering an FBI agent as directing Timothy McVeigh says that the documents attached to the affidavit indicate that the Oklahoma City bombing was an inside job.”

Trentadue was also wrong on the video camera footage.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Except that Mankin also said that the two seismic events were caused by the same shockwave splitting due to densities in the soil. He also goes on to discuss that the additional length of the seismic event was caused by the harmonics in the buildings support during the explosion.

His allegory being based around two vehicles leaving at the same time, one taking the paved highway, the other taking the service road running beside the highway. They're going to arrive at their destinations at different times due to the differences between the highway and the service road.

Well that is a nice scientific theory but why didn't U.S. Geological Survey release the seismic data? I find that suspicious because it seems like they are hiding something.

Raymond Brown (senior geophysicist) must have disagreed, as one of the links there says he thought there was a second bomb. Apparently, Dr. David Deming (prof. geophysics University Oklahoma) agreed with him.

8 seconds between blasts seems a bit extreme....

I only take Mankins' data at face value. He reported seeing two seismic events....8 seconds apart. The dual shockwave theory is just that, a theory. It takes alot of balls to come out and say that they were caused by two bombs...

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

recreation of truck bombing goes after General Partin's theory

http://sci.tech-archive.net/Archive/.../msg00952.html



Trentadue was also wrong on the video camera footage.

I'm not sure what you are talking about here.....

On Trentadue:

"In January 1996, Trentadue received an anonymous phone call telling him that his brother Kenneth had been murdered by the FBI in a case of mistaken identity because his brother had fit the profile of a member of a group called the Midwest Bank Robbery Gang that had been robbing banks to fund an attack on the federal government. This led Trentadue to file a lawsuit in Utah ordering the FBI to release all documents relating to a failed sting operation they were running at a white supremacist paramilitary training camp in Elohim City, eastern Oklahoma, and its connection to the bombing on April 19 1995."

“During the process of his lawsuit, Trentadue was able to receive documents with names blacked out that show the FBI’s OKC bombing informants were conducting armed robberies with Timothy McVeigh in order to fund the construction of the fertilizer bomb used in the attack on the federal building,” Watson and Jones explain. “One of the foreign informants was actually the explosives instructor who taught him how to make the bomb,” said Trentadue, confirming that Nichols told him the criminal activities were part of a process of creating a ledger or a storyboard to which the government’s version of events could later be pinned to.”

[The Goon]

Back to the original story:

It was merely a "gardening incident."