June 6 1944

[Rerun]

I've known about D-day for decades but never really appreciated what it was all about, and war in general, and the sacrifices that hundreds of thousands made, until I say "Saving Private Ryan"

Best movie ever about the invasion of Normandy. So realistic.

I swear to God that if I had been on that beach I would had shat my pants out of fear and and I would have tried to find the biggest hole I could to crawl into...

Death was raining down on them indiscriminently and your chances of survival weren't that great.

I was moved to tears by the time the movie was over and my awe and opinion of world war 2 vets who saw combat went through the roof.

These guys truly deserved our respect and admiration.... and our eternal thanks.

[CaptainCrunch]

As one D-Day vet said to me in a Legion a few years ago. Take any movie that depicts going up the beach and multiply the terror and chaos by a thousand.

[Komskies]

Some tidbits about D-Day:

What does the “D” in D-Day stand for? The “D” does not stand for "Deliverance", "Doom", "Debarkation" or similar words. In fact, it does not stand for anything. The “D” is derived from the word "Day". “D-Day” means the day on which a military operation begins. The term "D-Day" has been used for many different operations, but it is now generally only used to refer to the Allied landings in Normandy on 6 June 1944.

Why was the expression "D-Day" used?
When a military operation is being planned, its actual date and time is not always known exactly. The term "D-Day" was therefore used to mean the date on which operations would begin, whenever that was to be. The day before D-Day was known as "D-1", while the day after D-Day was "D+1", and so on. This meant that if the projected date of an operation changed, all the dates in the plan did not also need to be changed. This actually happened in the case of the Normandy Landings. D-Day in Normandy was originally intended to be on 5 June 1944, but at the last minute bad weather delayed it until the following day. The armed forces also used the expression "H-Hour" for the time during the day at which operations were to begin.

What were Operation Overlord, Operation Neptune and the Battle of Normandy? When did they take place?
The armed forces use codenames to refer to the planning and execution of specific military operations. Operation Overlord was the codename for the Allied invasion of north-west Europe. The assault phase of Operation Overlord was known as Operation Neptune. This operation involved landing the troops on the beaches, and all other associated supporting operations required to establish a beachhead in France. Operation Neptune began on D-Day (6 June 1944) and ended on 30 June 1944. By this time, the Allies had established a firm foothold in Normandy. Operation Overlord also began on D-Day, and continued until Allied forces crossed the River Seine on 19 August 1944. The Battle of Normandy is the name given to the fighting in Normandy between D-Day and the end of August 1944.

Which Allied nations took part in the fighting?
The majority of troops who landed on the D-Day beaches were from the United Kingdom, Canada and the US. However, troops from many other countries participated in D-Day and the Battle of Normandy, in all the different armed services: Australia, Belgium, Czechoslovakia, France, Greece, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway and Poland.

How many Allied troops were involved in D-Day?
On D-Day, the Allies landed around 156,000 troops in Normandy. The American forces landed numbered 73,000: 23,250 on Utah Beach, 34,250 on Omaha Beach, and 15,500 airborne troops. In the British and Canadian sector, 83,115 troops were landed (61,715 of them British): 24,970 on Gold Beach, 21,400 on Juno Beach, 28,845 on Sword Beach, and 7900 airborne troops.
11,590 aircraft were available to support the landings. On D-Day, Allied aircraft flew 14,674 sorties, and 127 were lost.
In the airborne landings on both flanks of the beaches, 2395 aircraft and 867 gliders of the RAF and USAAF were used on D-Day.
Operation Neptune involved huge naval forces, including 6939 vessels: 1213 naval combat ships, 4126 landing ships and landing craft, 736 ancillary craft and 864 merchant vessels. Some 195,700 personnel were assigned to Operation Neptune: 52,889 US, 112,824 British, and 4988 from other Allied countries.
By the end of 11 June (D + 5), 326,547 troops, 54,186 vehicles and 104,428 tons of supplies had been landed on the beaches.
As well as the troops who landed in Normandy on D-Day, and those in supporting roles at sea and in the air, millions more men and women in the Allied countries were involved in the preparations for D-Day. They played thousands of different roles, both in the armed forces and as civilians.

How many Allied and German casualties were there on D-Day, and in the Battle of Normandy?
“Casualties” refers to all losses suffered by the armed forces: killed, wounded, missing in action (meaning that their bodies were not found) and prisoners of war. There is no "official" casualty figure for D-Day. Under the circumstances, accurate record keeping was very difficult. For example, some troops who were listed as missing may actually have landed in the wrong place, and have rejoined their parent unit only later.
In April and May 1944, the Allied air forces lost nearly 12,000 men and over 2,000 aircraft in operations which paved the way for D-Day.
The Allied casualties figures for D-Day have generally been estimated at 10,000, including 2500 dead. Broken down by nationality, the usual D-Day casualty figures are approximately 2700 British, 946 Canadians, and 6603 Americans. However recent painstaking research by the US National D-Day Memorial Foundation has achieved a more accurate - and much higher - figure for the Allied personnel who were killed on D-Day. They have recorded the names of individual Allied personnel killed on 6 June 1944 in Operation Overlord, and so far they have verified 2499 American D-Day fatalities and 1915 from the other Allied nations, a total of 4414 dead (much higher than the traditional figure of 2500 dead). Further research may mean that these numbers will increase slightly in future. The details of this research will in due course be available on the Foundation's website at www.dday.org. This new research means that the casualty figures given for individual units in the next few paragraphs are no doubt inaccurate, and hopefully more accurate figures will one day be calculated.
Casualties on the British beaches were roughly 1000 on Gold Beach and the same number on Sword Beach. The remainder of the British losses were amongst the airborne troops: some 600 were killed or wounded, and 600 more were missing; 100 glider pilots also became casualties. The losses of 3rd Canadian Division at Juno Beach have been given as 340 killed, 574 wounded and 47 taken prisoner.
The breakdown of US casualties was 1465 dead, 3184 wounded, 1928 missing and 26 captured. Of the total US figure, 2499 casualties were from the US airborne troops (238 of them being deaths). The casualties at Utah Beach were relatively light: 197, including 60 missing. However, the US 1st and 29th Divisions together suffered around 2000 casualties at Omaha Beach.
The total German casualties on D-Day are not known, but are estimated as being between 4000 and 9000 men.
Naval losses for June 1944 included 24 warships and 35 merchantmen or auxiliaries sunk, and a further 120 vessels damaged.
Over 425,000 Allied and German troops were killed, wounded or went missing during the Battle of Normandy. This figure includes over 209,000 Allied casualties, with nearly 37,000 dead amongst the ground forces and a further 16,714 deaths amongst the Allied air forces. Of the Allied casualties, 83,045 were from 21st Army Group (British, Canadian and Polish ground forces), 125,847 from the US ground forces. The losses of the German forces during the Battle of Normandy can only be estimated. Roughly 200,000 German troops were killed or wounded. The Allies also captured 200,000 prisoners of war (not included in the 425,000 total, above). During the fighting around the Falaise Pocket (August 1944) alone, the Germans suffered losses of around 90,000, including prisoners.
Today, twenty-seven war cemeteries hold the remains of over 110,000 dead from both sides: 77,866 German, 9386 American, 17,769 British, 5002 Canadian and 650 Poles.
Between 15,000 and 20,000 French civilians were killed, mainly as a result of Allied bombing. Thousands more fled their homes to escape the fighting.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

As one D-Day vet said to me in a Legion a few years ago. Take any movie that depicts going up the beach and multiply the terror and chaos by a thousand.

As good as movies are getting with special effects they still will never, ever come close to being able to portray what it was really like. Going on battle field tours around the Ypres Salient a few years ago, you kind of get a better feeling of what happened there. Still you can't feel the cold the same way the soldiers did because your not dressed entirely in wool like they were. Your not hearing the constant shelling. Its almost impossible to portray what these men went through on film.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

As good as movies are getting with special effects they still will never, ever come close to being able to portray what it was really like. Going on battle field tours around the Ypres Salient a few years ago, you kind of get a better feeling of what happened there. Still you can't feel the cold the same way the soldiers did because your not dressed entirely in wool like they were. Your not hearing the constant shelling. Its almost impossible to portray what these men went through on film.

I asked one Vet what the worst part of the battlefield was. He looked at me for a second and said the smell.

The smell of cordite and other explosives, the fact that you and your buddies haven't bathed in weeks, that when a person gets shot their bowels release, or worse yet they're ripped open. The smell of rotting bodies. The smell of mud. The smell of diesel and gas and sweat and fear.

He said he didn't mind what he could see, because he could dodge it, but the smell, he said he knew what hell smelled like

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I asked one Vet what the worst part of the battlefield was. He looked at me for a second and said the smell.

The smell of cordite and other explosives, the fact that you and your buddies haven't bathed in weeks, that when a person gets shot their bowels release, or worse yet they're ripped open. The smell of rotting bodies. The smell of mud. The smell of diesel and gas and sweat and fear.

He said he didn't mind what he could see, because he could dodge it, but the smell, he said he knew what hell smelled like

No doubt. You combine the smell, fatigue, hunger, thirst, the elements, the noise. Then add the threat of being horribly wounded or killed. Very tough to fathom.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

No doubt. You combine the smell, fatigue, hunger, thirst, the elements, the noise. Then add the threat of being horribly wounded or killed. Very tough to fathom.

Its pretty interesting and tragic talking to these guys, especially on rememberance day at a legion.

Most of them were resigned to death, especially the ones at the front of the landing craft. They would rather die then be wounded, because they knew that they would be left behind and nobody wanted to suffer on a cold beach.

The training that they did for the beach invasion got them ready for the sounds of war.

One vet in a book that I read said that the seawalls weren't that far away and gave limited protection, but when the ramp dropped it looked like they were a hundred miles away.

In Farley Mowats book he talked about Operation Husky and coming off of the boats, and one young private who with unblinking eyes presented arms and marched off of the landing craft into deep water never to be seen again.

[united]

Some great photos:
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/201...years_ago.html

[sa226]

Originally Posted by Rerun

I've known about D-day for decades but never really appreciated what it was all about, and war in general, and the sacrifices that hundreds of thousands made, until I say "Saving Private Ryan"

Best movie ever about the invasion of Normandy. So realistic.

I swear to God that if I had been on that beach I would had shat my pants out of fear and and I would have tried to find the biggest hole I could to crawl into...

Death was raining down on them indiscriminently and your chances of survival weren't that great.

I was moved to tears by the time the movie was over and my awe and opinion of world war 2 vets who saw combat went through the roof.

These guys truly deserved our respect and admiration.... and our eternal thanks.

Not to belittle your experience, because I think it is important that everybody have an appreciation for that day and what those people went through, however your appreciation is gained...

But...

Aside from the chaos of the opening scene that as has been said above needs to be multiplied tenfold.....there is very little that is accurate about Saving Private Ryan. From what I have been told Band of Brothers is one of the most, if not the most accurate of modern film depictions of WWII.

[sa226]

On a slightly less emotional level, it is also worth mentioning that all of the operations involved with the days before and after D-Day was probably one of the greatest logistical feats in human history.

The organization and planning of an operation involving hundreds of thousands soldiers, workers, vehicles, aircraft, ships.....not to mention the "decoy" army that was amassed up closer to Dover. Even though the operation did have its bumps along the road it was for all intents and purposes a success.

They accomplished all of this on essentially pencil and paper. There wasn't any computer with special software to aid in this massive undertaking.

That to me is amazing.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by sa226

On a slightly less emotional level, it is also worth mentioning that all of the operations involved with the days before and after D-Day was probably one of the greatest logistical feats in human history.

The organization and planning of an operation involving hundreds of thousands soldiers, workers, vehicles, aircraft, ships.....not to mention the "decoy" army that was amassed up closer to Dover. Even though the operation did have its bumps along the road it was for all intents and purposes a success.

They accomplished all of this on essentially pencil and paper. There wasn't any computer with special software to aid in this massive undertaking.

That to me is amazing.

IBM was busy making computers to help Hitler organize his Jew killing at the time, unfortunately.

[Otto-matic]

Old Bump but a day that should never be forgotten.

[cam_wmh]

Lest we forget

[CaptainCrunch]

Great bump.

[habernac]

Was watching History last night they had a special on Juno beach. I was cooking dinner and my kids came in and asked why Daddy was crying. "Because war sucks."

Miss my grandpa more on days like this.

[CaptainCrunch]

[QUOTE]Come and stand in memory
Of men who fought and died

They gave their lives in Normandy

Remember them with pride




Soldiers, Airman, sailors Airborne and marines

Who in civvy life were tailors

and men who worked machines




British and Canadian And men from USA

Forces from the Commonwealth

They all were there that day



To Juno, Sword and Utah Beaches of renown

Also Gold and Omaha

That’s where the ramps went down.





The battle raged in Normandy Many lives were lost

The war must end in victory

And this must be the cost




When my life is over And I reach the other side

I’ll meet my friends from Normandy

And shake their hands with pride.
[/QUOTE]

Normandy by Cyril Crain

Juno Veteran

[activeStick]

Prior to them storming the beach, were the soldiers told they'd basically be target practice while trying to get to the other side of the beach?

Unbelievable what they did

[CaptainCrunch]

They knew, when they looked at the battle plans and found out what boat numbers they were on, they knew.

Especially the ones in the first wave.

I remember watching a movie called Zulu and it had a line in it, that really does describe the situation for the average soldier getting into a boat in the first wave to hit the beaches.

Pte. Thomas Cole: Why is it us? Why us?
Colour Sergeant Bourne: Because we're here, lad. Nobody else. Just us.

[FurnaceFace]

BUMP

Given it's Canada 150 I think this year adds some significance. In my view, our significant role in D-Day was a defining moment in our history. We were the only landing force which made all their objectives on the day and showed to the world what we can do. Other events like Vimy Ridge were more defining but they needed us to take Juno and we did, and made it all the way to Caen before the day of days was complete.

[Fuzz]

We are heading there this fall to do Northern France and Belgium to visit these sites. Any tips on what to see, and how long we need at these places?