Is This A Joke? (Music copyright issues)

[FurnaceFace]

Awesome. So all the restaurants who sing Happy Birthday to a patron can get dinged for it thus hopefully curtailing the practice.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

The songwriters get royalties, too.

Does anyone BUT the songwriters get any royalties when it comes to music?

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by FurnaceFace

Awesome. So all the restaurants who sing Happy Birthday to a patron can get dinged for it thus hopefully curtailing the practice.

Nope, its a live performance. No royalties.

[troutman]

If you want to be filthy rich, write a new birthday song or christmas carol that catches fire.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Nope, its a live performance. No royalties.

Nope, you are mistaken.

Many restaurants have original, modern, corporate-developed songs that are used instead of "Happy Birthday to You" when serving patrons cake on their birthdays. Originally, these songs were specifically developed to prevent copyright infringement and having to pay royalties.

If you use a recording of a song the rights holder of the performance gets a fee and the songwriter gets a fee. If you perform a song in public then the songwriter is supposed to get a fee. If you perform to a group of friends/family then there is no fee involved as it is considered a private performance.

[Nufy]

So much for the good ole...campfire sing along......

[The Yen Man]

How the heck do they enforce these things? If I was a small restaurant owner and I don't pay the fee, do they actually come check to make sure I stop playing the music?

[Bobblehead]

SOCAN

Q: Why do I need a SOCAN licence?
A: The licensing system is important because everyone deserves to get paid for their work - including the people who create the music that fills our lives every day. According to the Copyright Act, any public performance of copyright-protected musical works requires a licence. When a song gets played in public, music creators (not just the performers) are entitled to collect their licence fees - it's part of their livelihood. The tariffs for these uses are set by the Copyright Board, and the fees generally work out to mere fractions of a penny per song.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Nope, you are mistaken.

If you perform a song in public then the songwriter is supposed to get a fee.

I don't think that is correct. If it is correct, there is nuances at the very least.

My experience with this matter come in the framework of church worship singing.

I KNOW that churches (a public place) do not have to play royalties on songs performed live. They do, however, have to pay royalties to display/print the lyrics for the congregation to sing along, and to make copies of music sheets for performers. Almost every church does this through CCLI as the administration to do it all manually would be a nightmare.

Another example issue for churches regarding this whole discussion - it is illegal for someone to bring a Veggie Tales video or something of the like to the church and show it in the nursery or a sunday school class. So, many churches pay another umbrella royalty fee for the right to show videos and video clips.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

I don't think that is correct. If it is correct, there is nuances at the very least.

My experience with this matter come in the framework of church worship singing.

I KNOW that churches (a public place) do not have to play royalties on songs performed live. They do, however, have to pay royalties to display/print the lyrics for the congregation to sing along, and to make copies of music sheets for performers. Almost every church does this through CCLI as the administration to do it all manually would be a nightmare.

Another example issue for churches regarding this whole discussion - it is illegal for someone to bring a Veggie Tales video or something of the like to the church and show it in the nursery or a sunday school class. So, many churches pay another umbrella royalty fee for the right to show videos and video clips.

Public performances of copyrighted work are subject to fees. There is a specific exemption for churches.

Most recorded or live music you hear in public places is subject to a fee charged to the site owner/ administrator. The United Church strongly supports efforts to ensure creative artists receive all due compensation and recognition. But...It is important to note that music played in the furtherance of religion is EXEMPT from SOCAN fees and therefore most church activities involving music are exempt from SOCAN fees.

However if you have a fundraising concert, or if you rent your hall for a wedding reception where music is played, a SOCAN fee is likely payable. Note: Music played at the wedding ceremony is of course an
exempt church activity. Music played for an exercise class is probably subject to fee, music played for a CHURCH spiritual development program (yoga/meditation etc) is not. If a renter runs yoga classes with music, a fee is payable. Pretty confusing. Generally music played by renters (except schools) is subject to fee.

http://domino-11.prominic.com/A55971...1?openDocument

Edit: Also from the SOCAN link in my earlier post:

Q: We're a religious, educational, charitable or fraternal organization or institution. Do we need a SOCAN licence for the music we perform in public?
A: Under the Copyright Act, there are certain exemptions, but specific conditions must be met in order to qualify for the exemption. The exemptions are:
Religious - Music as part of worship or service
Educational - Forms part of the curriculum
Charitable -
o The organization is a charitable organization
o The performance at the event is done by the charitable organization itself (as opposed to independent contractor performers)
o The performance of music directly furthers a charitable object.

[You Need a Thneed]

^Interesting, thanks. I didn't know that. My experience is pretty much limited to in-church activities.

What is interesting, is that under that definition, walking through a mall and singing a (copyrighted) song is technically illegal, since it is a performance in a public place. Singing the song at home with your friends wouldn't be, because it is in a private place, NOT because you are doing for your friends.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

How the heck do they enforce these things? If I was a small restaurant owner and I don't pay the fee, do they actually come check to make sure I stop playing the music?

My understanding is that there are in fact people that go around to various establishments, usually focusing on bars and clubs, that check on what music is played in order to ensure compliance with the licensing regime.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

While I think a small business owner playing CDs he's already paid for paying another royalty on top of that is really dumb, your statement is even worse. Let me guess, your favorite band is Nickelback and you drive a Chevy, right?

What is really 'dumb' is your reading comprehension (while I hated typing that, why would you attack me????). I wrote "They should charge the musicians for 'advertising' their music!" What I think someone might interpret from my statement is that a store playing a band's music should charge the band money for advertising their music (because they are exposing their music). I also think the same way regarding wearing t-shirts with company logos on them and things like that. I don't know why the music industry does these types of things, considering they pay for advertising! They should push people to play the music, maybe that will expose the music to customers.
In case you have never read any of my posts, my favorite bands are Tool, Slayer and a bunch of other harder bands. I don't drive a chevy, but I do own a couple of Subarus.
Let me guess, your little sister hacked your Calgarypuck account?

[GFG4Life]

Do you think the next step is paying to tune into FM radio stations? That is the single biggest free product in the world. Aside from sat. radio that is.

[troutman]

Licencing Fees nearly killed internet radio:

http://www.washingtonwatch.com/bills...0_HR_2060.html

http://www.linuxjournal.com/node/1000196

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by GFG4Life

Do you think the next step is paying to tune into FM radio stations? That is the single biggest free product in the world. Aside from sat. radio that is.

Radio stations already pay royalties on the songs they play. Royalties don't have to be paid twice.

[ken0042]

So what happens if a coffee shop subscribes to Shaw and pumps through the Galaxy audio stations?

Or for that matter if they play a local FM radio station?

[troutman]

Originally Posted by ken0042

So what happens if a coffee shop subscribes to Shaw and pumps through the Galaxy audio stations?

Or for that matter if they play a local FM radio station?

My guess is the royalties are already paid by the stations. The size of the audience has already been estimated from all sources.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by ken0042

So what happens if a coffee shop subscribes to Shaw and pumps through the Galaxy audio stations?

Or for that matter if they play a local FM radio station?

For the Shaw thing, I already noted that I'm fairly certain that busniness like restaruants and bars already have to pay extra to subscribe to cable, for just such a situation.

As for the radio stations, playing AM/FM stations isn't covered by this.
You're free to turn up the volume on your radio all you like, or play it at your business without an issue. I don't know why it's different, but I'd suspect the fact that it's a free to air service has something to do with it.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

While I think a small business owner playing CDs he's already paid for paying another royalty on top of that is really dumb, your statement is even worse. Let me guess, your favorite band is Nickelback and you drive a Chevy, right?

Why is his statement worse?

Happens all the time. Payola.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payola

California Uber Alles: Pull My Strings