ProtestWarrior.com

[Mike F]

I don't buy this for a second. People don't become self aborded like that due to anything except that thier idealogical concepts no longer function once they get into a real world model.

What is this unreal world that university students live in? Unlike previous generations, virtually every student I know has to work while in school, lives on their own and has to deal with rent and is in debt. What is it that the real world still has to shock them with that makes their old idealogical concepts unworkable?

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally posted by Mike F@Aug 16 2004, 04:01 PM
I don't buy this for a second. People don't become self aborded like that due to anything except that thier idealogical concepts no longer function once they get into a real world model.

What is this unreal world that university students live in? Unlike previous generations, virtually every student I know has to work while in school, lives on their own and has to deal with rent and is in debt. What is it that the real world still has to shock them with that makes their old idealogical concepts unworkable?

great point

one I honestly never thought of, and being a university student, that kinda surpises me.

Rent, work, loans, paying for courses/books/materials, budgeting time. You're right being a student today is also a crash course in "the real world"

[peter12]

Originally posted by Mike F@Aug 16 2004, 01:01 PM
I don't buy this for a second. People don't become self aborded like that due to anything except that thier idealogical concepts no longer function once they get into a real world model.

What is this unreal world that university students live in? Unlike previous generations, virtually every student I know has to work while in school, lives on their own and has to deal with rent and is in debt. What is it that the real world still has to shock them with that makes their old idealogical concepts unworkable?

Great Post. Students know the value of a dollar more than everyone except parents.

So what is the point of ProtestWarrior? Not all protestors are hippies. Some actually believe againsy what they are protesting. So was HOZ on the side of the Chinese Army in Tiannamen Square?

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

God, I hate getting into these debates, but I guess I'll just close my eyes and jump in.

With regard to the students getting the crash course in Uni posts. Ie the rebuttal to the students go more right when they leave school:

In university the emphasis tends to be on "School should be free so I don't have to work so hard, and can get my degree done" a pretty leftist ideal.

Once school is done and people are getting better jobs it tends to move towards "I wish taxes weren't so high so I could support my family"

Whether or not people shift either direction after Uni is up for debate, but I think everyone would agree that priorites pretty much always shift when people make big changes in their lives. Ex. university to career.

[RougeUnderoos]

Wow, what a great website.

Is that an example of "intelligent right"? Organizing a Hooray for Halliburton is certainly "intelligent". I'm a few years out of University, a taxpayer and all that, so I hope oneday soon the big change will come and I'll be smart enough to do something like that.

I love the "we the liberty-loving Silent Majority" line. That's Liberty alright!

I'll just add that the whole "racist" angle of that website is something I'm not too comfortable with. I would assume that bothers us all on both sides, no?

[Cowperson]

I looked around the website just now as well. The posters for sale are fairly funny until you realize they're serious.

The video where the group is protesting Matt Lauer and the Today Show for "Liberal Media bias" is HILARIOUS given Michael Moore was accusing Lauer and the same program in an interview only a month or two ago of being White House cheerleaders.

Stuff like that slays me.

Cowperson

[calf]

Originally posted by Cowperson@Aug 16 2004, 02:11 PM
I looked around the website just now as well. The posters for sale are fairly funny until you realize they're serious.

The video where the group is protesting Matt Lauer and the Today Show for "Liberal Media bias" is HILARIOUS given Michael Moore was accusing Lauer and the same program in an interview only a month or two ago of being White House cheerleaders.

Stuff like that slays me.

Cowperson

Question: when people on the right bash a media source for being too left wing, and people on the left bash the same source for being too right wing, does that mean said media source is doing a good job, or a bad job?

seriously, this is kind of confusing me

[RougeUnderoos]

I think Cow would say that that does mean they are doing a good job.

At least he's almost convinced me that that is the case.

[Cowperson]

Originally posted by calf+Aug 16 2004, 08:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (calf @ Aug 16 2004, 08:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Cowperson@Aug 16 2004, 02:11 PM
I looked around the website just now as well. The posters for sale are fairly funny until you realize they're serious.

The video where the group is protesting Matt Lauer and the Today Show for "Liberal Media bias" is HILARIOUS given Michael Moore was accusing Lauer and the same program in an interview only a month or two ago of being White House cheerleaders.

Stuff like that slays me.

Cowperson

Question: when people on the right bash a media source for being too left wing, and people on the left bash the same source for being too right wing, does that mean said media source is doing a good job, or a bad job?

seriously, this is kind of confusing me [/b][/quote]
The best thing that can happen to a media source is to be accused of favouritism by both sides.

Both the left and the right have their control freaks and if they can't control something they attempt to marginalize it by accusing it of bias. If a news source is getting that from all directions well, it probably means no one is happy. . . . which is good.

You never hear of FOXnews being accused of a left wing bias and you never hear of CBC news being accused of a right wing bias either.

Shame on them. That's illuminating as well.

Cowperson

[Bingo]

I think any attempt by Fox to say that they don't lean right is a waste of time. They do have some left leaning personalities (Greta Van ...), and I don't think they are a "puppet" for the Republicans as some have said, but they certainly lean to the conservative side.

I think ratings are another barometer of how a news channel slants. Fox, for example, can't be as far right as many make them out to be or they wouldn't be the leading cable news network in the United States in past year. The country is far too divided for an extreme network on either side to dominate.

[Cube Inmate]

Originally posted by peter12+Aug 16 2004, 01:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (peter12 @ Aug 16 2004, 01:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mike F@Aug 16 2004, 01:01 PM
I don't buy this for a second. People don't become self aborded like that due to anything except that thier idealogical concepts no longer function once they get into a real world model.

What is this unreal world that university students live in? Unlike previous generations, virtually every student I know has to work while in school, lives on their own and has to deal with rent and is in debt. What is it that the real world still has to shock them with that makes their old idealogical concepts unworkable?

Great Post. Students know the value of a dollar more than everyone except parents. [/b][/quote]
Aha!

Students may know the value of a dollar, but student work tends to skew their vision of the value of hard work. THAT is where university students live in a different reality. At the typical student's wage, a dollar earned is (almost) a dollar taken home. Taxes are minimal. Thus, these students actually believe in the idea that working harder to make a good life for yourself is easy: work twice as hard, earn twice as much.

After graduation, when income goes up, they are shocked with the cruel truth that this isn't the case under our taxation system. It's this kind of thing that pushes people right. So in essence, university students live in a certain reality where work = wealth; outside of university, the other reality sets in where work = more taxes.

So there's the key...it isn't "living in an unreal student world," or self-absorption necessarily, but just a broader view of how society functions.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally posted by Cube Inmate+Aug 16 2004, 06:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cube Inmate @ Aug 16 2004, 06:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Great Post. Students know the value of a dollar more than everyone except parents.

Aha!

Students may know the value of a dollar, but student work tends to skew their vision of the value of hard work. THAT is where university students live in a different reality. At the typical student's wage, a dollar earned is (almost) a dollar taken home. Taxes are minimal. Thus, these students actually believe in the idea that working harder to make a good life for yourself is easy: work twice as hard, earn twice as much.

After graduation, when income goes up, they are shocked with the cruel truth that this isn't the case under our taxation system. It's this kind of thing that pushes people right. So in essence, university students live in a certain reality where work = wealth; outside of university, the other reality sets in where work = more taxes.

So there's the key...it isn't "living in an unreal student world," or self-absorption necessarily, but just a broader view of how society functions. [/b][/quote]
are you implying that I don't work hard (crosses fingers and hopes that no one notices that I post here 24/7)

[Mike F]

After graduation, when income goes up, they are shocked with the cruel truth that this isn't the case under our taxation system.

So there's the key...it isn't "living in an unreal student world," or self-absorption necessarily, but just a broader view of how society functions.

I think you're underestimating university students expectations and overstating the cruelty of our tax system. I doubt that the increase in taxes that people face when they start their career is so large that it would shock most students.

Again, IMO and in my experiences it is usually the starting of a family that changes people and their priorities the most in the post-university world, making them more conservative.

[Cowboy]

I agree with the statement that it could be the case where one goes to University and has liberal views and when they work in the "real world" they become more right leaning.

However I hope I continue to have my liberal social views and as well continue to have my fiscally conservative views....that is why I was saying I was a blue liberal.
The intelligence bit was just a terrible post and I apologize for it, it was a rash defense to Hoz's original post, but I guess really all it did was reflect badly on me and my INTELLIGENCE.

As for Calf's question
What I was saying is that the friends of mine that have never opened a book outside of highschool, couldn't tell you where the middle east is on a map, and wouldn't be able to tell you who our prime minister was before Chretien. All seem to vote conservative. That might be because they vote conservative and they truly believe in what they want to accomplish, or it could be that they are following the crowd in Alberta. I tend to believe the latter because they wouldn't be able to tell me who there MP is even though they voted for them.

[HOZ]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos@Aug 16 2004, 07:50 PM

Is that an example of "intelligent right"? Organizing a Hooray for Halliburton is certainly "intelligent".

I'll just add that the whole "racist" angle of that website is something I'm not too comfortable with. I would assume that bothers us all on both sides, no?

I'd like to have to give an example of racism on that site rather than giving the carte blanche racism label. There is certainly riske and maybe overly harsh points being made. Mostly mocking the Left for their stance. I didn't see anything racist. The signs are all made, in their words, "to take the Left's position to its' logical conclusion". Now agree with that or not that is what they are trying to do.

As for being rich enough....

A couple of College kids felt that their conservative views were not being represented in their Universities or in the media and started a counter-protest movement.

Now I certainly don't agree with everything they say but I give them credit for standing up to a whole lot of abuse from a supposedly peaceful movement for peace. And if they feel like supporting Halberton they are well within their rights to do so.

[RougeUnderoos]

http://www.protestwarrior.com/signs.php?thumb=8

The one on the top right is interesting. If that doesn't imply that black people are criminals...

They label American anti-Halliburton protesters "islamo-fascists", which, in addition to being really stupid, is racist. Some people, myself included, label Texans that have a dissenting opinion "American".Lots of implications that Islam=terrorism which is a textbook example. Didn't you look at all their posters? A Wesley Clarke-themed poster in there seems to be a white-power message.

Surprisingly enough, they even have some hints of creationism and some good old fashioned Red Menace mixed in with the racism. Good for them. If you wanna align yourself with those kinda beliefs, go nuts.

[HOZ]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos@Aug 17 2004, 01:22 AM
http://www.protestwarrior.com/signs.php?thumb=8

The one on the top right is interesting. If that doesn't imply that black people are criminals...

They label American anti-Halliburton protesters "islamo-fascists", which, in addition to being really stupid, is racist. Some people, myself included, label Texans that have a dissenting opinion "American".Lots of implications that Islam=terrorism which is a textbook example. Didn't you look at all their posters? A Wesley Clarke-themed poster in there seems to be a white-power message.

Surprisingly enough, they even have some hints of creationism and some good old fashioned Red Menace mixed in with the racism. Good for them. If you wanna align yourself with those kinda beliefs, go nuts.

I guess it's all in the interpretation. You are certainly reading a lot more into a sign than what is there and have labelled it racist for non other than being slightly tasteless.

The hand in the sign is white, not black. And the sign is refering to the government stealing money and the position of some Black groups that want reparation for America's slavery. More along the lines of this sign I would say

http://www.protestwarrior.com/signs.php?sign=12

As for Islamo-fascists. Salim Mansur aften refers to Bin Laden and those that agree with such tight interpretation of the Koran as such. Mansur is of the Islamic faith and writes for the London Free Press and the Toronto Sun on top of his day time job of being a professor at Western.
http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Columnists/L.../04/567878.html

And again the posters are made to MOCK the left's position. They are NOT made for represent their own postion.

As well you obviuosly didn't really see the protest marches that they crashed. They were organised by ANSWER. A communist activist group.

[Cowboy]

Originally posted by HOZ+Aug 17 2004, 01:52 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (HOZ @ Aug 17 2004, 01:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-RougeUnderoos@Aug 17 2004, 01:22 AM
http://www.protestwarrior.com/signs.php?thumb=8

The one on the top right is interesting. If that doesn't imply that black people are criminals...

They label American anti-Halliburton protesters "islamo-fascists", which, in addition to being really stupid, is racist. Some people, myself included, label Texans that have a dissenting opinion "American".Lots of implications that Islam=terrorism which is a textbook example. Didn't you look at all their posters? A Wesley Clarke-themed poster in there seems to be a white-power message.

Surprisingly enough, they even have some hints of creationism and some good old fashioned Red Menace mixed in with the racism. Good for them. If you wanna align yourself with those kinda beliefs, go nuts.

I guess it's all in the interpretation. You are certainly reading a lot more into a sign than what is there and have labelled it racist for non other than being slightly tasteless.

The hand in the sign is white, not black. And the sign is refering to the government stealing money and the position of some Black groups that want reparation for America's slavery. More along the lines of this sign I would say

http://www.protestwarrior.com/signs.php?sign=12

As for Islamo-fascists. Salim Mansur aften refers to Bin Laden and those that agree with such tight interpretation of the Koran as such. Mansur is of the Islamic faith and writes for the London Free Press and the Toronto Sun on top of his day time job of being a professor at Western.
http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Columnists/L.../04/567878.html

And again the posters are made to MOCK the left's position. They are NOT made for represent their own postion.

As well you obviuosly didn't really see the protest marches that they crashed. They were organised by ANSWER. A communist activist group. [/b][/quote]
So basically what you are saying is that the people on the extreme left are being teased by people pretending to be on the extreme right??? hmmmm, I am not really buying it.

[RougeUnderoos]

The text of the message says "Reparations to Blacks -- We already take half of people's money by force and redistribute it, what's the big deal" there is a gun pointing at the reader. It's not even subtle. I'm what you call a leftie, but I have no idea what belief of mine they are trying to mock with that racist poster.

I guess you got me on the "you didn't see the protest groups they crashed" business. I've never heard of ANSWER but what the hell, I'll agree they are a communist activist group.

Of course that begs another question -- is it typical of the far-righters to label communists as religious-fascists? I know you people on the right are really smart, so do me a favor and explain that one to me, would ya? And if your explanation is sufficient, I'll explain to you why I believe that apples are oranges.

The label would apply, I guess, to Osama and his friends, but it really doesn't fit for a bunch of godless Texan communist anti-war demonstrators.

And finally -- a Republican calling the Democrats a bunch of good ol' boys is just funny. A Republican (and I assume a Trent Lott supporter) trying to throw civil rights into the face of the left is even funnier.

[Cube Inmate]

Originally posted by Maritime Q-Scout+Aug 16 2004, 04:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Maritime Q-Scout @ Aug 16 2004, 04:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Aha!

Students may know the value of a dollar, but student work tends to skew their vision of the value of hard work. THAT is where university students live in a different reality. At the typical student's wage, a dollar earned is (almost) a dollar taken home. Taxes are minimal. Thus, these students actually believe in the idea that working harder to make a good life for yourself is easy: work twice as hard, earn twice as much.

After graduation, when income goes up, they are shocked with the cruel truth that this isn't the case under our taxation system. It's this kind of thing that pushes people right. So in essence, university students live in a certain reality where work = wealth; outside of university, the other reality sets in where work = more taxes.

So there's the key...it isn't "living in an unreal student world," or self-absorption necessarily, but just a broader view of how society functions.

are you implying that I don't work hard (crosses fingers and hopes that no one notices that I post here 24/7) [/b][/quote]
Nope...I wasn't implying that. Just that low-income earners have a more direct relationship between hard work and income, and therefore aren't as disillusioned by "the system."

Most people I know who go into debt for school don't feel sorry for themselves, or feel that the rest of society should pay more for their education.