Why on earth do we suck so much at certain sports?

[burning_acid1]

It's somewhat embarrassing when you look at how Canada has performed so far.

[Kipru]

Finland has 1 medal, and that came from half-pipe. You should be happy, we suck like oilers

[JayP]

Originally Posted by browna

Morrison blaming Own the Podium:
http://www.ctvolympics.ca/speed-skat...tml?cid=rsstsn

Morrison, who finished a dismal ninth in the 1,500-metre race, said his technique has fallen off since the days he trained with Davis in Calgary before the 2006 Turin Games.

...

Davis trains by himself and came to Calgary in advance of Turin to work out at the oval there, striking up a close relationship with Morrison. The two competed fiercely, and Morrison began to rise quickly up the international rankings as he raced against the faster American.

However, Morrison's coach, Marcel Lacroix, disagreed with his skater. "For me as a coach, that is not an excuse," said Lacroix, who also coaches Canadian Christine Nesbitt, who won gold in the women's 1,000 metres this week.

"The program was giving him what he needed for the last three years. He got a world record with his technique in the program. So now what? So it was working and now it's not working, so it's the program? I can't support this at all."

Bunch of garbage excuses Morrison. Good for the coach for calling it what it is...ridiculous. The program gave him more money and more training time and everything since 2006...and it got him the world record. But when he fails, he reverts to using the excuse that the Own the Podium and thus not being able to train with Davis in the past 4 years is the reason to blame he finished 9th and 15th in the biggest races.

Choker...and a whiner, obviously.

That is actually hilarious when you look into it.

Morrison is currently sitting 4th in the World Cup standings for 1500m this season. And that's having only skated 4 of the 5 races (while everyone above him has skated all 5). So really, with 5 races he'd most likely be sitting at 2nd or 3rd in the standings.

But when he finishes 9th in his best discipline it's Canada's fault for giving him too much money and better coaches? Why isn't this money holding him back in World Cup races, but only at the Olympics?

Cut this losers funding and see how far he gets.

[Bill Bumface]

All of our best male athletes are hockey players. You can only win one medal for that. If you're a phenomenally gifted athletic youth in this country, there is a very strong chance you'll be drawn to hockey over any of the sports being discussed here for many reasons.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

All of our best male athletes are hockey players. You can only win one medal for that. If you're a phenomenally gifted athletic youth in this country, there is a very strong chance you'll be drawn to hockey over any of the sports being discussed here for many reasons.

You would think the mindset would be different though and they would look at the big picture and realize they have a very low chance of becoming a Sydney Crosby but the door is wide open to become an olympic champion and country hero in a sport that is not strong here.

[Devils'Advocate]

Sad day for Canada when "our best of the best athletes" can only manage a shootout win vs Switzerland.

But I do understand what you are getting at. How many friends do you guys have that go out and luge on the weekends? Me personally cycle and swim and play baseball. Not once have I ever been enticed to try the skeleton.

Now during the summer Olympics I said that giving the taxpayer money to the atheletes for "Own the Podium" was a good investment because there are a myriad of payoffs:
#1 - National pride and cohesiveness - should we get a good medal haul everyone from coast to coast would enjoy that. Except maybe the separatists.
#2 - It gives young people something to strive for. If they see that if they get off their ass, drop the PS3 controller, and go DO SOMETHING and DO IT WELL they will be rewarded with being a world champion Olympic gold medalist. I know my nephew is learning about the Olympics at school, had to do a report on Cindy Klasen, and my brother made a backyard skating rink so my nephew could pretend to speed skate.

However, I think my mind has changed a bit though. I'm starting to think that we CAN'T compete with the other countries. First, several of the countries ahead of us have more people and more resources to throw at the athletes. Particularly the U.S. and Germany. Norway has a very small population and has 3 more medals than we do, but they are mostly in cross-country skiing and biathlon. I know of absolutely NOBODY that does biathlon in their spare time. Why would we spend money on athletes in a sport Canadians just don't care about?

I am starting to think that if we pour money into the Olympic training program and STILL can't compete, then #1 and #2 disappear. Actually they work in reverse. Most people across the country are all "Canada really, really sucks.. why can't this country do something right for a change? Our inclusiveness and attitude need to change." And as wonderful as Montgomery's win was, I can't see any 8 year olds seeing that and saying "Wow, I want to stop playing Cars on the PS3 and go try that". So maybe it is a waste of resources that could be used elsewhere.

[evman150]

So many losers and chokers competing for Canada. Manuel Osborne-Paradis is a loser. The rest of the alpine team are losers. Wotherspoon is a loser. Morrison is the biggest loser of all. What an asswipe. Veronica Bauer choked. Patrick Chan choked. The bobsledders are chokers. And what are the ski jumpers in this country. One guy jumped 95m in qualifying? Isn't that like going to the summer olympics in diving and doing a cannon ball? What a joke.

Really really disappointing so far. Only choker so far I was impressed with was Melissa Hollingsworth- she had the balls to own up to her choke job, not like the other losers, who were content with "it wasn't my day" and "it's just an honour to be here". And the commentators joining in with "Athlete Y is soooo awesome he/she has won XXXXXX world cup titles, it just wasn't his/her day".

Enough choking, enough losers. We need more athletes like Jon Montgomery.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

You would think the mindset would be different though and they would look at the big picture and realize they have a very low chance of becoming a Sydney Crosby but the door is wide open to become an olympic champion and country hero in a sport that is not strong here.

Somehow I don't think Jon Montgomery is going to be as rich as Sydney Crosby. You become a national hero for a week. He'll be back to being a used car salesman next week.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by T@T

I sure hope that's not where our development money is going considering they are pro sports and the people playing them for the most part are filthy rich allready.

Curlers are filthy rich?

[Muta]

Sometimes, it's all situational-based. It's easy to say that we need more money and more time to train, better facilities, etc. yet an athlete's result could have come down to something as small as hitting a rut in the ice and losing speed for a 10th of a second.

In that situation, no amount of training / money can help you there. That's simply the way it goes.

For cross-country skiing, we had three Canadian skiers in the TOP TEN. We've never had that many skiers that high, ever. Even though we didn't win a medal, we certainly made an impact... moreso than any other Olympics in this sport.

Some people need to stop being so critical and realize that sometimes, it just doesn't go your way. No amount of money, facilities, training, Own the Podium pressure, whatever... matters when you run into situations where you just can't control it. And if these situations are controllable, well, then it's up to the individual athlete to showcase their skill. I think this thread is really taking away from the quality of the competition the rest of the world puts forth. We can say we should be the best at everything, but let's respect our opponents here a little bit. They can potentially be just as good, if not better, than us... and that's reality.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by Kipru

Small mistake there, we do have several facilities. The world cup is jumped on a 4 different Finnish hills, we also have several smaller venues for training.

http://berkutschi.com/en/front/hills/list

I guess the main reason for you guys sucking is that you haven't had any successful athlete in those sports for years, so kids rather want to be like Sidney Crosby than Stefan Read.

Finland has a very long tradition in ski jumping that was built over decades, of course. It comes down to coaching and the young athletes available to coaches. Tradition means that people know how to build winners in that particular sport and that there are young people who are interested in taking part in it.

So if you want success in some new sport, often the first step is to hire a coach from a successful country to a long-term contract. It takes years.

Focusing on the athletes' mentality is an easy way out. I seriously doubt there are national differences in that regard. It also puts the athletes in a schizophrenic situation where they both choke under too much pressure and expect too little from themselves at the same time.

[Mirajj]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

You would think the mindset would be different though and they would look at the big picture and realize they have a very low chance of becoming a Sydney Crosby but the door is wide open to become an olympic champion and country hero in a sport that is not strong here.

And being an "Olympic Champion and Country Hero" is good for what? And how long? Folks barely remember anyone who competed at the Olympics when they are done, win or lose. Now, you can reel off a bunch of the winners, I'm sure, but can you do it without looking it up? Did the Olympics so impress us (Canadians, and even folks in other countries) that they know a/the winners without having to look it up even a week afterwards?

The Olympics are a tired, old 'celebration' of a bunch of sports no one cares two bits about except for the 2 weeks that they are forced into the center stage by millions to billions of dollars.

Personally, and I imagine a lot of folks worldwide feel the same as I do, I'd rather have a "very low chance of being Sydney Crosby" than being a 'country hero' for 2 weeks every 4th year.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Muta

Sometimes, it's all situational-based. It's easy to say that we need more money and more time to train, better facilities, etc. yet an athlete's result could have come down to something as small as hitting a rut in the ice and losing speed for a 10th of a second.

Well, if you are going to chalk it all up to "luck", then shouldn't "luck" randomly help a country as much as hinder? Or is "luck" for the United States and against Canada? Maybe because they are a Christian nation that believes in God more than we do, God has been on their side? I don't know how the randomness of "luck" seems to almost always put Canada in 4th or 5th place.

Why do you believe that "luck" has favoured so many nations over Canada, to allow surprise winners while our favorites finish outside the medals?

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Well, if you are going to chalk it all up to "luck", then shouldn't "luck" randomly help a country as much as hinder? Or is "luck" for the United States and against Canada? Maybe because they are a Christian nation that believes in God more than we do, God has been on their side? I don't know how the randomness of "luck" seems to almost always put Canada in 4th or 5th place.

Why do you believe that "luck" has favoured so many nations over Canada, to allow surprise winners while our favorites finish outside the medals?

What makes you think it's 'luck'? Maybe, on that night, the other athlete was just better. Things went their way, including 'luck'. It happens. There are just so many factors that could have gone on for one to consider.

For example, Eric Guay placing fifth in Super-G. Perhaps he took one turn a split second too far out. All the training in the world could have been there for him, and yet at that moment, it happened. Unfortunate, but it happened.

I'm not saying we shouldn't be developing even better athletes because the results are there, but holy smokes, let's be realistic here.

[Muta]

But I also have to say (to play devil's advocate with myself), having one ski jumper in a pool of 50 is very strange. Same with the results we put up in half-pipe, given the popularity / number of boarders in this country. I do agree with you in some cases.

[Devils'Advocate]

If "no amount of training could prepare for that moment" and it's just some random occurrence, then it is "luck". Which SHOULD balance between advantageous and and disadvantageous and in the end should have no effect on the medal count measured over a prolonged period of time.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

If "no amount of training could prepare for that moment" and it's just some random occurrence, then it is "luck". Which SHOULD balance between advantageous and and disadvantageous and in the end should have no effect on the medal count measured over a prolonged period of time.

Or not? Just cause you say it balances out, doesn't make it so.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by Mirajj

And being an "Olympic Champion and Country Hero" is good for what? And how long? Folks barely remember anyone who competed at the Olympics when they are done, win or lose. Now, you can reel off a bunch of the winners, I'm sure, but can you do it without looking it up? Did the Olympics so impress us (Canadians, and even folks in other countries) that they know a/the winners without having to look it up even a week afterwards?

The Olympics are a tired, old 'celebration' of a bunch of sports no one cares two bits about except for the 2 weeks that they are forced into the center stage by millions to billions of dollars.

Personally, and I imagine a lot of folks worldwide feel the same as I do, I'd rather have a "very low chance of being Sydney Crosby" than being a 'country hero' for 2 weeks every 4th year.

I agree with this. Personally I don't care for the Olympics, summer or winter. Other than the hockey tournament of course.

I don't get why taxpayers should pour money into niche sports to develop "winners." You can skate in circles really fast? Good on you buddy but who the hell cares. I sure as hell don't want to fund training facilities so you can be good at something that's totally unimportant.

Hockey, soccer, tennis, basketball, sure these are actual sports and draw people and hold importance so if you are good, you can hold your head up. Curling? Get out of here.

[Henry Fool]

Every host country's athletes feel extra pressure. That's not particular to Canada in any way. Where it's the most harmful is when you have a chance to medal, but you're only one of many who can, so you know you have to be perfect to get there.

It's not luck as such that comes to play there, but like someone else pointed out, there is a certain variation that comes from the simple fact that there are other great athletes competing as well. I suspect Canada will do pretty well in the end.

Comparisons to people like Shaun White are pointless. That's not cockiness or any special mental trait, that's natural confidence from being a supreme athlete.

[Bunk]

I think it comes down to how big a deal sports are in certain countries and the talent pool of elite athletes that are drawn to those sports. Sure some people cross country ski in Canada, but it's not ingrained in the national conciousness like it is in say Norway. As a result, they draw their best from a massively larger pool of athletes and win. Similar for luge for Germany, Speed skating for Netherlands, Alpine skiing for Austrians and the Swiss and so on.

There aren't that many sports in the winter games that garner that kind of stature in Canada with the exception of probably hockey, curling and the free-style events of skiing and snowboarding - all of which we are world leader. The fact that we get a good number of medals and world-class performances across a wide array of the winter sports is very impressive to me. There's very few countries that have a presence or are competitive in say more than half of the winter sports - Canada is one.