Litter

[carom]

I personally believe that manufactures should be responsible for their packaging. If they have to give you a container to take your food away, then it should be biodegradable. If it ends up on the ground, then at least it should be able to take care of itself. I've seen grocery bags and coffee cups that will biodegrade in sunlight. Problem is it costs more. I would be willing to pay a little more for this, but most people im guessing would not.

A manufacturer should be responsible for the entire lifespan of a product. Our current system just passes the buck along until it is out of site and out of mind. Just because you can’t see it, does not mean that it is not causing a problem.

[carom]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

But the cause of the problem - littering - is people throwing their garbage on the street.

Overpackaging does not cause litter.

To me there is not much difference between throwing it on the street or throwing it in a dump. Litter is a superficial thing IMO.

Lack of packaging prevents litter. Making a manufacturer responsible for their packaging and product prevents wastefulness.

[gargamel]

Less packaging = less garbage. Less a-holes = less litter. Wouldn't reducing both garbage and litter be a good thing? Superficial or not, I wouldn't want to have to wade though a parking lot full of biodegradable litter to get into a store.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by carom

To me there is not much difference between throwing it on the street or throwing it in a dump. Litter is a superficial thing IMO.

Then I suggest you visit other countries where the citizens think the same thing, and tell me if you still agree. Knowing a lot of 1st generation Canadians, I often hear how they are amazed at how clean our city and country is; because there isn't litter everywhere.

I will give you that from an environmental aspect on a planetary scale; the difference may be negligable. But seeing as that difference is so negligable, why not have one place for garbage (the dump), and save the rest of us from the asthetics and the health issues with garbage being everywhere.

[HPLovecraft]

Blatant littering shocks me. It says a whole lot about a person's personality, IMO. Disrespect for not only the Earth, but also their city, and everyone around them that has to look at their filth when they could just likely walk 10 feet away and find a garbage can ANYWHERE.

The worst I seen was one time when I was working in downtown Toronto here with some guy I just met that day. We were sitting outside eating McDonalds on the steps of some building. he finishes, and just brushes the entire bag full of garbage and drink off the side of the steps onto the ground. He just didn't care. I was so shocked I didn't even know what to say or do. I had never seen anything like it before. It's so callous.

[carom]

Taking pride in how your city looks is a good thing.

Getting all high and mighty on someone for tossing a mcdonalds bag on the ground because you are saving the planet is a bad thing. For most of the people I see doing this, it makes them seem hypocritical and fascist to me.

If you are getting mad at litterers because you are taking pride in your city, then you should be willing to pick it up yourself and know that you are doing a good thing. I would rather have people that take pride in their city by taking action to make things better then enforcing on other people what they think other people should be doing. Littering in a city like Calgary is mainly a superficial annoyance, IMO it should not be high on the enforcement priority list. If litter starts to have a more tangible effect on the population (i.e., causing health and mobility issues) then a greater level of enforcement is necessary.

All I am saying is that if you are a litter cop because you are trying to save the planet, there are many much much more useful things that you could be doing. If you are doing it to take pride in your city, get off your high horse and clean it up yourself. You are never going to get rid of all the idiots in a population center. You can waste your time yelling at them or you can take action and hope to change their attitude in the future.

[Russic]

You're acting like these guys are taking time away from feeding the homeless to hunt people who litter. I hardly think the act of confronting somebody about their littering habits is energy poorly spent nor does it take up any time.

I see nothing wrong with getting high and mighty on somebody who leaves an entire mcdonalds bag on the ground. Like HP said, it's an absolute blatant display of disrespect to those who share that space.

[JustAnotherGuy]

Originally Posted by carom

To me there is not much difference between throwing it on the street or throwing it in a dump. Litter is a superficial thing IMO.

Lack of packaging prevents litter. Making a manufacturer responsible for their packaging and product prevents wastefulness.

I think I understand what you are trying to say. I agree. But you are saying it wrong.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by carom

Taking pride in how your city looks is a good thing.

Getting all high and mighty on someone for tossing a mcdonalds bag on the ground because you are saving the planet is a bad thing. For most of the people I see doing this, it makes them seem hypocritical and fascist to me.

If you are getting mad at litterers because you are taking pride in your city, then you should be willing to pick it up yourself and know that you are doing a good thing. I would rather have people that take pride in their city by taking action to make things better then enforcing on other people what they think other people should be doing. Littering in a city like Calgary is mainly a superficial annoyance, IMO it should not be high on the enforcement priority list. If litter starts to have a more tangible effect on the population (i.e., causing health and mobility issues) then a greater level of enforcement is necessary.

All I am saying is that if you are a litter cop because you are trying to save the planet, there are many much much more useful things that you could be doing. If you are doing it to take pride in your city, get off your high horse and clean it up yourself. You are never going to get rid of all the idiots in a population center. You can waste your time yelling at them or you can take action and hope to change their attitude in the future.

How does someone taking offense to people throwing McDonalds bags on the ground instead of in a garbage bin make them fascist? Please explain.

[carom]

All im trying to say is that I dont like wastefulness and people imposing their ideas on other people.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by carom

Getting all high and mighty on someone for tossing a mcdonalds bag on the ground because you are saving the planet is a bad thing. For most of the people I see doing this, it makes them seem hypocritical and fascist to me.

Actually, you are the one who brought up the planet. The rest of us were talking about how disrespectful it is.

Originally Posted by carom

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]If you are getting mad at litterers because you are taking pride in your city, then you should be willing to pick it up yourself and know that you are doing a good thing.

No, my civic duty does not include picking up after others. Nor am I reponsible for shoveling snow that people push onto the street, or looking after anybody else.

I will save my good deeds for things that matter. Last week I helped push a couple of cars that were stuck. There's a couple of other small deeds; but this thread isn't here for me to discuss selfless acts. What I am saying is you also have no right to dictate what civic duties I should uphold- and none of them involve me doing more work due to somebody's laziness.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by carom

All im trying to say is that I dont like wastefulness and people imposing their ideas on other people.

By chucking garbage on the ground in the city where everybody else lives, works, and walks, you are the one imposing yourself on everyone else. Not the other way around.

Buy an acre of land and use it as your own personal garbage dump. Then we can start talking.

[JustAnotherGuy]

Originally Posted by carom

All im trying to say is that I dont like wastefulness and people imposing their ideas on other people.

I believe the word you want is ideals.

So, cleaning up after yourself is an ideal? How clean is your room? Your house.

I need to take a and I am going to come over and do it on your front lawn. I assume you have no problem with that. Not that I care what your ideal is about that.

[carom]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

How does someone taking offense to people throwing McDonalds bags on the ground instead of in a garbage bin make them fascist? Please explain.

This is just a personal opinion. If someone is quietly taking offense then this is not the case. If someone is getting up in my face for something that they think is wrong, but I dont, it seems fascist to me. This may not be the case for you.

[carom]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Actually, you are the one who brought up the planet. The rest of us were talking about how disrespectful it is.



No, my civic duty does not include picking up after others. Nor am I reponsible for shoveling snow that people push onto the street, or looking after anybody else.

I will save my good deeds for things that matter. Last week I helped push a couple of cars that were stuck. There's a couple of other small deeds; but this thread isn't here for me to discuss selfless acts. What I am saying is you also have no right to dictate what civic duties I should uphold- and none of them involve me doing more work due to somebody's laziness.

I was putting words in other peoples mouths, sorry.

I think people should be able to determine for themselves what their civic duties are. If you dont like it fix it. that is what I was trying to say.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by carom

If you dont like it fix it. that is what I was trying to say.

Then we are on the same page on that. Your fix is to do it yourself. The fix being proposed by most others here is to confront the person. I see the latter as being more of "teaching a man to fish" and yours as "giving a man a fish."

[carom]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherGuy

I believe the word you want is ideals.

So, cleaning up after yourself is an ideal? How clean is your room? Your house.

I need to take a and I am going to come over and do it on your front lawn. I assume you have no problem with that. Not that I care what your ideal is about that.

Ideals is correct.

If i want to live in filth, then I should be aloud to live in filth, unless it is affecting the people around me so much so that they can't live their life. This is a fine line, and determining where that line is for yourself is easy, as a collective it is much tougher.

I am guessing you are missing a word in that last sentence. Some people see it as fertilizer, some see it as toxic waste.

[Russic]

Originally Posted by carom

This is just a personal opinion. If someone is quietly taking offense then this is not the case. If someone is getting up in my face for something that they think is wrong, but I dont, it seems fascist to me. This may not be the case for you.

Isn't littering against the law? I would say that makes it pretty wrong.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by carom

This is just a personal opinion. If someone is quietly taking offense then this is not the case. If someone is getting up in my face for something that they think is wrong, but I dont, it seems fascist to me. This may not be the case for you.

Littering is objectively wrong (in our society). WTF is wrong with you? Only an A-1 a-hole would litter.

[Rerun]

Litter is a big deal to me. People who litter are just thoughtless and inconsiderate. To me its just one step removed from being in someones home and eating a chocolate bar and just throwing the wrapper on the carpet and just leaving it there for the home owner to pick up.

On the whole, I think Canadians are are pretty conscientious bunch when it comes to littering. ... unlike some other nationalities. Many a time I have met someone from another country and the first thing they remarked was how clean it was here.

.... and you know... if you do a bit of travelling (particularly by hwy)... it is a lot cleaner here than some other places. Nothing worse than traveling through some beautiful countryside and all you see is the ditches full of litter.

I say litters should all be tarred and feathered and then put in the stocks so we can throw rotten eggs and fruit at them.... And then of course, like the good Canadians we are, we'll clean up our mess and put it in the garbage.