Non-competition Clause?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Barnes

I have one of these. It is my understanding that no one has successfully enforced a non competition clause. At least, last time I briefly looked into it.

I do know that they are not legal in some places like California. Some companies will enter into informal agreements not to poach like Apple and Google.

They are fully enforceable and have been enforced in many places so long as they are not found oppressive. Different states have different standards, but even california allows them in a limited number of contexts.

This is a pretty good overview of the issues a court will likely consider.

http://labor-employment-law.lawyers....ts.html?page=2

[Sliver]

I've never seen sandwiches spelled as such on the Internet. I thought it had to be sammiches.

[Winsor_Pilates]

I have these in my contracts and usually scratch them out and have my boss agree to it. It really depends on what you job is and what the company is (would they actually bother to come after you).
If you're in sales like I am, it could be very restrictive if you lose your job and want to stay in the same industry. I would try to get it taken out if you can.

[BlackArcher101]

Having worked in the engineering/technical side of things, I'm used to signing these agreements. I've never really thought about it twice, but I wouldn't sign anything over 4 months.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by valo403

They are fully enforceable and have been enforced in many places so long as they are not found oppressive. Different states have different standards, but even california allows them in a limited number of contexts.

This is a pretty good overview of the issues a court will likely consider.

http://labor-employment-law.lawyers....ts.html?page=2

Maybe I should have said employers have a tough time enforcing the agreements in most cases.

Do you have any Canadian examples of employers winning? (just cause I don't know where to look)

[McG]

while i am no lawyer, my understanding is that canadian courts really frown on these agreements restricting people from earning a living. One of the challenges, as others have noted, is that a person may have huge knowledge or skillz. however, if a person gets packaged out and gets 4 months salary in lieu, i am not sure that you can be asked not to work for 12 months.

someone suggested legal advice; that's a good suggestion. i would always think about the spirit and the letter of the contract; is the company really looking to stop you working? maybe, maybe not. sometimes everyone just wants to protect everything.

i say, protect yourself.

[BlackArcher101]

I ended up asking for the document I signed from HR so I could make a copy for my records. Mysteriously it was never returned and they forgot I had it.

Pretty much did it for everything I signed. Worth a shot. Worse that can happen is they ask for it back.

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by McG

while i am no lawyer, my understanding is that canadian courts really frown on these agreements restricting people from earning a living. One of the challenges, as others have noted, is that a person may have huge knowledge or skillz. however, if a person gets packaged out and gets 4 months salary in lieu, i am not sure that you can be asked not to work for 12 months.

someone suggested legal advice; that's a good suggestion. i would always think about the spirit and the letter of the contract; is the company really looking to stop you working? maybe, maybe not. sometimes everyone just wants to protect everything.

i say, protect yourself.

That's a good summary.

The rest of my post is information and not advice. Do not rely on a message board post for legal advice. Details will be missed.

This is a really complicated area of the law, partially because lots of people sign them but courts don't like them-- they restrict trade.

The real issue is, what will you learn by working there that would represent an unfair detriment to your employer should you leave to work for a competitor.

Also, often times employees will form relationships with clients, and those relationships develop only because of their position with their employer.

If you are in sales for example, and are put into direct contact with your employer's customers, and have signed a non-competition agreement (and more importantly, a non-solicitation agreement) and then decide to jump to a competitor for better pay, you might have a problem-- and will have a problem if you use the contacts you developed from your former employer to bring business to your new employer.

If, through your employment you are taught a skill and that training is not available elsewhere, it is also more likely that a non-comp will be upheld. That is a rare factual circumstance however.

The language in the non-comp or non-solicitation agreement is really important, and if it is over-reaching there is a pretty good chance a court will ignore it instead of reading it down to something more reasonable.

You should avoid signing one whenever possible.

People really need to get legal advice on this in advance, but it rarely happens. The end result is, litigators get more work. Advice before hand is inexpensive and cost effective. Litigation after the fact can be brutally expensive.

Edit: Vlad's posts are also really good

[jtfrogger]

I was once asked to sign one of these. I was working for a consulting company and they instituted a policy to have these signed a year or two after I started. I ignored the request, and also ignored the reminder that I got a few months later. Basically, I was being asked to give something up without getting anything in return.

Fast forward a few years, and I decided to leave and go work as an employee directly with one of the clients. Through the discussions with the company I was informed that my actions were against my non-comp agreement. I then informed the manager that he will find no trace of such a document because I never signed it. I don't think they would have pushed it too hard if I did really sign it, since a deal was made for my new employer to take on another contractor. But I was sure glad that I didn't sign it.

[Buff]

At a previous job I was supposed to sign an agreement that I would not go work in the IT department, or go out on my own as IT consulting for any of the companies clients. The guy who was supposed to get me to sign it was sick for the first week of my employment. I later mentioned to him that he wanted me to sign some agreement and he said "Don't worry about it". Little did I know at the time but he was in the process of leaving... he was stealing a major project and several big clients for this project.

A couple years later I was joking around about talking the companies biggest client into hiring me as their full time IT guy as it would save them big money to have their own IT guy. My boss was like "No, you signed an agreement". He was upset when I told him I didn't and said something to the tune of "That 's move is still screwing us over two year's later". They never did get me to sign any agreements.

A year later I quit to go work at my current place of employment. My current place of employment (Company A) was previously a client of my old place of employment (Company B)... until a former employee left Company B to become the IT guy for Company A.