Fire all the fricken municipal transportation managers.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by simmonjam1

Just a thought, but if the major routes were gridlocked what good would a sander do?

Yep. I saw several sanders stuck in the same traffic you were. What were they supposed to do? Sandblast the cars around them?

Deerfoot was fine, Glenmore was fine, 16th was fine. Roads that weren't fine were roads that couldn't get sanded because of a combination of peak traffic and accidents making it impossible for anyone to do anything.

[Byrns]

I thought they had this miracle spray they could apply on the roads before a snowfall? It's not like this was a surprise.

[DOK]

Personally, I think no one knows how to be happy anymore (general sweeping statement I know). But if the city had put all the sanders out, salt, gravel and resources into this "storm" and people got home in good time, the waste would be headline news as well. With everyone getting home quickly and fine it would look like a huge money loss on all that equipment and labour.

It really didn't snow much and it hit below 0 quickly. Looking out the window or at any pictures there isn't much accumulation. No reason to really think this was going to be a devastating driving day at all. Yes, snow was forecast, but there's been plenty of days with snow in the forecast this week (I'm sure someone will bring up some stat to dispute this, I know, and I know it's November, no excuse not to expect snow). But being in Calgary for most of my life, this was a strange incident, and I know weather forecasters shoot 50-50 at the best of times, and as much as I know, the city listens to the same reports we do. Did Andy from Breakfast TV give you an indication it would be as bad as it was? Why would the city know any different?

[FurnaceFace]

Originally Posted by Option84

I'm sick of this.

You should have just gotten back on the first flight out to say Phoenix and hired someone to pack up all your stuff and ship it down there for you.

In general I get people are upset, I would be too if I was stuck on the roads for hours or on a bus for 4. However, I really don't understand how the city is supposed to be responsible for an act of nature or somehow predict it's going to be the worst ice conditions ever. If the city was out putting down a "magic salt solution" or something at every possible event we'd be complaining about higher taxes.

I had called The City to alert them to the conditions on my street (around 5:45) and the very nice 311 lady they said they'd add it to the list and that all the sanding trucks were out but they were stuck in traffic like everyone else. Around 7 we had a sanding truck appear, but due to the morons who kept trying to drive up the road he couldn't do his job so away he went. He reappeared between 9 and 10 and got our street sanded. I talked to him and it was the same guy as the first time. He said he couldn't wait then because he was needed at Sarcee - Bow. Between the time he left the first time and his return he had only gone to Sarcee and Bow. It took him at least 2 hours round trip for something which should take minutes. Until someone perfects a teleporter the sander have to drive on the same gridlocked streets as everyone else.

[metallicat]

Same story every year down in Calgary. I realize the city is completely different than Edmonton, but this is one thing you guys can learn about from Edmonton. Our streets in the winter are far superior to Calgary's after snow and storms. The problem though, is that there isn't the money in the budget in Calgary to do what Edmonton does.

[You Need a Thneed]

Nothing the city could do in a situation like this - at least up here in the NE.

At 4 pm, the roads were fine, maybe just a little bit wet, at 4:30, they were covered with snow, and at 5:30, when I tried to get home, my usual ten minute drive took an hour, although we did stop at Wendy's on the way home. In my 15 years of driving, I haven't seen roads that icy too many times. There was no reason to go more than 30 km/h anywhere, and in many places you wouldn't have wanted to go faster than about 10 km/h.

As soon as it got bad, and the roads needed clearing, the plows and sanders were caught in the same traffic jams as everyone else.

[Huntingwhale]

I blame this weather on Jesus.

[Robbob]

I guess it just looks bad because the city went ahead and added a million dollars to the snow budget eariler in the week. If Carmacks get get its ducks in a row and get deerfoot done the city should have been able to moblize and get some of the trouble spots before rush hour.

[CaramonLS]

I don't blame the city at all.

It's not like there is some method to actually predict the weather now is there? I mean it would be nice to know a couple days or weeks ahead what it is actually going to be like outside. If it is going to snow, rain, etc..

Because if we knew it was going to snow yesterday (by some form of voodoo magic), then maybe they could have put a couple of salt/sand combos on the off ramps a couple hours beforehand, which was the biggest problem IMHO.

[JustAnotherGuy]

Originally Posted by Skate around the circle

To much braking going on which causes things to glare up.Slow down people and use your gears for what they are designed for.We can't keep blaming the city,this is Calgary after all and it can get cold in a hurry.I was lucky enough to get out of there at 3:30 and I did see a couple of salt trucks rolling then.Oh yeah lets not forget about the state of our tires as well. Alot of hills in Calgary get used to it.

Are you saying that if all the drivers drove like you suggest that the roads would have been fine? Is that what you saying?

[HOOT]

As much as I hate the rain it is stories like this that makes me realize that maybe +10 with some showers ain't that bad.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Because if we knew it was going to snow yesterday (by some form of voodoo magic), then maybe they could have put a couple of salt/sand combos on the off ramps a couple hours beforehand, which was the biggest problem IMHO.

They did that- Thursday night; when the original forcast said we were going to get 2 cm. Then it didn't happen, it wore off, and then evening rush hour hit.

Last night I really didn't think it was that bad until I heard the news stories. But I also just put on my winter tires so I guess that's why I didn't notice the poor conditions.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by ken0042

They did that- Thursday night; when the original forcast said we were going to get 2 cm. Then it didn't happen, it wore off, and then evening rush hour hit.

Last night I really didn't think it was that bad until I heard the news stories. But I also just put on my winter tires so I guess that's why I didn't notice the poor conditions.

There was not a shred of gravel, salt or sand anywhere near downtown connecting 6th and 4th with Bow/Crowchild. Not an ounce.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by ken0042

They did that- Thursday night; when the original forcast said we were going to get 2 cm. Then it didn't happen, it wore off, and then evening rush hour hit.

Last night I really didn't think it was that bad until I heard the news stories. But I also just put on my winter tires so I guess that's why I didn't notice the poor conditions.

Depends on where you were - I was coming from the north end up Centre Street - no one, and I mean NO ONE could get up the hill after McKnight because of a sheet of ice that was about an inch and a half thick.

People were basically driving up on the curb and leaving the cars to walk somewhere.

I got re-routed down to Edmonton Trail - same story. Spent 90 minutes stuck in gridlock because no one could get up the hill towards 16th Ave. Same thing - people just leaving their cars to walk.

I finally kicked over on the 32nd Ave connector and get out of the mess - but it didn't matter what people were driving or what tires they had - no one could get up any of the large hills in the north end of the city.

It was the craziest I've ever seen the roads. Not sure if the city is to blame as it seemed like a perfect combo of weather factors.

[BlackArcher101]

You don't sand before precipitation, you do it after. However, if the precip turns into glare ice, sand won't stick anyways. The city is damned if they don't and damned if they do in that case.

I can't beleive people are blaming the city on the bad road conditions. Any ounce of critical thinking would make a person realize how little control they had. I guess in todays world, at least someone must be at fault for anything that inconviences us.

[Jedi Ninja]

I agree somewhat that getting more sanders out probably wasn't the issue. Just one question, though. Does the city have all of its equipment operate out of a central hub, or do they have units spread across the city?

[shermanator]

Yes, the roads were horrendous, but it was basically the perfect storm for creating sheer ice. Not to mention, the storm happened during rush hour, which doesn't give sanders the best access to fix the roads.

This issue can be fixed with drivers being smarter about winter driving. If you attempt to go up/down a steep hill of sheer ice without winters, it's probably not going to work. If you see a bunch of cars inching down a hill because it's icy, don't speed up and try to go around them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHq11...eature=related

This could sum up some of the things I saw last night.

[Bunk]

Calgary traffic is nothing. Everytime I come back to Calgary from Toronto I think to myself that Calgary has the traffic congestion of a small town. Try Toronto where there is no such thing as rush hour, it is gridlock from 7am to 9pm every day.

The best way for Calgary to ease traffic congestion as it continues to grow into a true big city will be to improve transit to parts of the city that are currently lacking LRT like the SE and North Central area. Of course land use patterns need to intensify as well so that you don't have to drive to meet your daily needs. The key for Calgary will be to balance transportation modes. The more you load up on one or rely on one mode the more congestion is guaranteed. If you can more evenly distribute people amongst transit, walking, cycling and driving the better off each system will be, particularly where there's stress put on the movement system like bad weather - none gets pushed over the edge so easily.

[Hack&Lube]

I blame the city for the fact that they spent a decade without doing proper zoning and limiting the ridiculous expansion and urban sprawl that makes throwing money at snow removal a problem that gets worse every year because the amount of surface area of roads that must be cleared increases more and more every year as the city sprawls outward.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

Same story every year down in Calgary. I realize the city is completely different than Edmonton, but this is one thing you guys can learn about from Edmonton. Our streets in the winter are far superior to Calgary's after snow and storms. The problem though, is that there isn't the money in the budget in Calgary to do what Edmonton does.

Not in my experience they're not. I remember up there visiting my then gf, and it snowed overnight. In the morning there was snow everywhere and not a plow in sight. 97th st, a major road, was a nightmare to drive. Good thing I had the winter rubber on and just tore through it, but there were cars stuck everywhere. This was a couple of years ago though, so maybe things have changed.