Couple arrested for refusing to tip

[ken0042]

Ok, let's keep this "safe for work" guys.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Komskies

Queue the Mr. Pink rant from Reservoir Dogs...

I included it in the tags

[flamefan74]

I can see why restaurants charge a gratuity on large groups. They are a lot of work and most times they don't tip at all. Although, I think the group should have the discretion to not pay if the service was terrible.

[Komskies]

Originally Posted by flamefan74

I can see why restaurants charge a gratuity on large groups. They are a lot of work and most times they don't tip at all. Although, I think the group should have the discretion to not pay if the service was terrible.

Do you have a source for this? I haven't worked the Restaurant industry since I was 18, but as far as I can remember, most large groups would tip pretty decently.

[mykalberta]

Because it says on parties or 6 or more I consider that a group tax not a tip. Its very simple, you choose not to go there any more and you bad mouth the place where ever you go.

76 seems awful low for a party of 6+ - I am thinking they have that policy for people who nurse 1 beer durring a football game or something like that.

[Phaneuf3]

None of this adds up...

All over a $16.35 tip.

They were with a half-dozen friends at the Lehigh Pub in Bethlehem last month, so the establishment tacked what it called a mandatory 18 percent gratuity onto the bill of about $73, according to reports.

73 * 0.18 != 16.35

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Because it says on parties or 6 or more I consider that a group tax not a tip. Its very simple, you choose not to go there any more and you bad mouth the place where ever you go.

76 seems awful low for a party of 6+ - I am thinking they have that policy for people who nurse 1 beer durring a football game or something like that.

Only 2 people got arrested though. Maybe the 76 or 73 or whatever it was was only for those 2? Who knows.

[flamefan74]

Originally Posted by Komskies

Do you have a source for this? I haven't worked the Restaurant industry since I was 18, but as far as I can remember, most large groups would tip pretty decently.

Between my own personal experiences of being in a large group and of serving them. There is a difference if its a work group where 1 person is picking up the tab compared to a friend group that pays their own separately. The 1 person paying would usually leave a large tip whereas the friend group might leave $1/person. Or maybe I just hang out with really cheap people.

[Red_Baron]

Originally Posted by flamefan74

The 1 person paying would usually leave a large tip whereas the friend group might leave $1/person. Or maybe I just hang out with really cheap people.

It's the latter. I've got friends that try and pull that when we are in a group (it is usually one couple out of 5 or 6), I always call them on it.

[FlamesFanInOilCountry]

I currently work in Hospitality Management, and the issue is that you have to put policies in place or else people argue and try to turn staff against each other. Example being, the gratuity thing... Truth be told, alot of larger groups don't tip or don't tip nearly enough, and it takes alot of time and resources to get the space ready, serve them and clean up etc etc. Not to mention they will sit there and tie up space (2 or 3 tables pushed together) waiting for the rest of their party to show up, when you could be serving other smaller groups.

Alot of larger groups will pay separate bills and I'd say at least 3/4 of the time everyone thinks someone else will tip, or you will have 1 or 2 people out of a group of 10 that will tip. I've had people complain about having to pay a 15% gratuity on groups larger than 8, but it's clearly stated at the time of ordering at the time that they are sat at the table. If it's not satisfactory, no one is forcing them to stay, they can leave and go eat somewhere else. As far as dealing with the concern of your guests, the manager said he offered to comp some of their bill, which could be true or false. But if someone had a concern about the quality of service or the quality of food, you should speak to the manager about your concerns and any intelligent manager would comp something (or something on that level), but flat our refusing to pay the gratuity is just stupid IMO and making a mountain out of a molehill.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by FlamesFanInOilCountry

I currently work in Hospitality Management, and the issue is that you have to put policies in place or else people argue and try to turn staff against each other. Example being, the gratuity thing... Truth be told, alot of larger groups don't tip or don't tip nearly enough, and it takes alot of time and resources to get the space ready, serve them and clean up etc etc. Not to mention they will sit there and tie up space (2 or 3 tables pushed together) waiting for the rest of their party to show up, when you could be serving other smaller groups.

Alot of larger groups will pay separate bills and I'd say at least 3/4 of the time everyone thinks someone else will tip, or you will have 1 or 2 people out of a group of 10 that will tip. I've had people complain about having to pay a 15% gratuity on groups larger than 8, but it's clearly stated at the time of ordering at the time that they are sat at the table. If it's not satisfactory, no one is forcing them to stay, they can leave and go eat somewhere else. As far as dealing with the concern of your guests, the manager said he offered to comp some of their bill, which could be true or false. But if someone had a concern about the quality of service or the quality of food, you should speak to the manager about your concerns and any intelligent manager would comp something (or something on that level), but flat our refusing to pay the gratuity is just stupid IMO and making a mountain out of a molehill.

The flat-rate gratuity thing for larger groups assumes an adequate level of service. If the service is bad, you shouldn't have to tip. It's really that simple.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by FlamesFanInOilCountry

I currently work in Hospitality Management, and the issue is that you have to put policies in place or else people argue and try to turn staff against each other. Example being, the gratuity thing... Truth be told, alot of larger groups don't tip or don't tip nearly enough, and it takes alot of time and resources to get the space ready, serve them and clean up etc etc. Not to mention they will sit there and tie up space (2 or 3 tables pushed together) waiting for the rest of their party to show up, when you could be serving other smaller groups.

Alot of larger groups will pay separate bills and I'd say at least 3/4 of the time everyone thinks someone else will tip, or you will have 1 or 2 people out of a group of 10 that will tip. I've had people complain about having to pay a 15% gratuity on groups larger than 8, but it's clearly stated at the time of ordering at the time that they are sat at the table. If it's not satisfactory, no one is forcing them to stay, they can leave and go eat somewhere else. As far as dealing with the concern of your guests, the manager said he offered to comp some of their bill, which could be true or false. But if someone had a concern about the quality of service or the quality of food, you should speak to the manager about your concerns and any intelligent manager would comp something (or something on that level), but flat our refusing to pay the gratuity is just stupid IMO and making a mountain out of a molehill.

Well, the manager claims he offered to comp the meal because the service was that terrible. If that's true, the new cost of the meal is $0.00. Apply the gratuity of 18%... lets see... let me get my calculator here... 0 * 0.18 = 0

They didn't pay their $0 mandatory-optional-gift?! CALL THE COPS! HAVE THESE PEOPLE ARRESTED!

Or who knows... maybe this manager and staff are a bunch of lying scumbags... whichever.

[yads]

Originally Posted by flamefan74

Between my own personal experiences of being in a large group and of serving them. There is a difference if its a work group where 1 person is picking up the tab compared to a friend group that pays their own separately. The 1 person paying would usually leave a large tip whereas the friend group might leave $1/person. Or maybe I just hang out with really cheap people.

Strange, I always find the opposite. Everyone way over tips, to the point where we wind up having to give people money back since there's usually a 30% tip on the table.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by yads

Strange, I always find the opposite. Everyone way over tips, to the point where we wind up having to give people money back since there's usually a 30% tip on the table.

That's typically been my experience too.

Or even worse is when you have seven people who pay with cash and then one guy who collects the cash and pays the whole bill with debit or credit. There's usually so much cash on the table that the dude paying with plastic only has to pay for a small fraction of what his meal cost, and that includes leaving a ~15% tip.

[luloo]

Originally Posted by Komskies

Queue the Mr. Pink rant from Reservoir Dogs...

Haha gotta love that part of the movie and it's true to a degree. When service sucks and the waitress screws up why should she get a 15+% tip? I believe the amount of tip should be directly related to the service. If a mandatory tip is inforced why not just include the tip in the price of the food and make it somewhat "hidden"?

[3 Justin 3]

When I was in Venice, Italy I ate at one place, I was the only person there (during lunch time) and the service was horrendously bad, and when it came down to pay I refused to pay the 12% gratuity. He kept saying it was on the menu, I said "I am not paying it", and I got out of it. I argued with him for like 5 minutes too. Looking back, I probably shouldn't have argued with an Italian in Italy with very little English speaking people, but what ever.

If service is poor, than you shouldn't have to pay.

[Jayems]

Larry David (Curb your Enthusiasm) on the 18% mandatory plus the additional tip.

[Locke]

If its guaranteed then its not a tip its a tax.

[NuclearFart]

Originally Posted by FlamesFanInOilCountry

I currently work in Hospitality Management, and the issue is that you have to put policies in place or else people argue and try to turn staff against each other. Example being, the gratuity thing... Truth be told, alot of larger groups don't tip or don't tip nearly enough, and it takes alot of time and resources to get the space ready, serve them and clean up etc etc. Not to mention they will sit there and tie up space (2 or 3 tables pushed together) waiting for the rest of their party to show up, when you could be serving other smaller groups.

Alot of larger groups will pay separate bills and I'd say at least 3/4 of the time everyone thinks someone else will tip, or you will have 1 or 2 people out of a group of 10 that will tip. I've had people complain about having to pay a 15% gratuity on groups larger than 8, but it's clearly stated at the time of ordering at the time that they are sat at the table. If it's not satisfactory, no one is forcing them to stay, they can leave and go eat somewhere else. As far as dealing with the concern of your guests, the manager said he offered to comp some of their bill, which could be true or false. But if someone had a concern about the quality of service or the quality of food, you should speak to the manager about your concerns and any intelligent manager would comp something (or something on that level), but flat our refusing to pay the gratuity is just stupid IMO and making a mountain out of a molehill.

Your argument rests entirely on the premise that a tip is a given, which is the very problem. The definition of "gratuity" is exactly the opposite of that, and your service industry is to blame for blatantly shunting your labor costs onto customers.

[Icon]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

None of this adds up...




73 * 0.18 != 16.35

Well played sir.

You might even say these guys could use some math... tips...