New Telus/Bell Network - Getting iPhone in November [MRG]

[photon]

Originally Posted by Azure

If Apple did that they would probably be the stupidest company in the world.

How is getting the most $$ stupid?

Originally Posted by Azure

How far does Rogers 3G service extend too?

Not very far. Telus on the other hand is covering virtually the entire province. How many of those people that can't use a Iphone(like me)...because they're not in range of a Rogers 3G tower would buy one if Telus, who does have 3G, or 4G towers in their area, and they got the Iphone?

You don't require 3G service to use an iPhone, any GSM coverage will work, 3G is just faster.

Rogers' coverage is pretty good, not as much as Telus' CDMA, but still good. If you made a count of the # of people that could get Telus's CDMA but could not get any GSM from Rogers, I would bet that # is pretty low. So the question is does that low # of people justify forgoing the extra $$ you get from an exclusivity deal?

Another thing to consider is when Telus rolls out their 3G network will it likely be to densely populated areas as well, just like Rogers. They aren't going to be able to magically convert their CDMA network into GSM, it's a whole new network.

GSM has a smaller maximum range than CDMA does (though it's not quite that simple, there are tons of variables, but under ideal conditions CDMA has a bigger range), so it could be that to get the same coverage they get currently with CDMA, they'd have to install a bunch of new towers.

Just like in the US, at&t didn't cover the entire US, there were some areas where people couldn't get an iPhone at all even though there was a GSM carrier in their area. It's not just about the coverage, it's about the $$.

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I'm still not buying the whole "iPhone to Telus" thing.
...

You have to remember, in Apple's biggest market (USA) their current provider (AT&T - gsm) is currently looked upon as being the weak link in that partnership - who knows if that is really the case or just Apple media.

Where as the US version of Telus (Verizon) is looked at having superior network capacity and speed. Hence why they would move there.

Personally, I think once it goes off AT&T exclusivity you will see it open to all carriers - one phone with GSM, one with whatever Verizon uses. Probably called iPhone 4a and 4b or whatever.

Canada as always is a small potatoes market for any US company. Had Verizon got the US contract you would see Telus or Bell with it instead of Rogers.

[wooohooo]

I don't know enough about this reception stuff but I was always told CDMA had way better coverage etc. However, I had problems in my condo. I was with Telus for a year and my reception kept cutting out. Same problem with my roommate. And my friend who lives in a 16th floor apartment building also. Our friends with rogers had full reception... so I'm thinking GSM is better.

[bomber317]

Originally Posted by wooohooo

I don't know enough about this reception stuff but I was always told CDMA had way better coverage etc. However, I had problems in my condo. I was with Telus for a year and my reception kept cutting out. Same problem with my roommate. And my friend who lives in a 16th floor apartment building also. Our friends with rogers had full reception... so I'm thinking GSM is better.

Really depends on where you are.

The last company I was with have a 6 figure bill per month with Telus. Sent out a RFP to switch providers because we hated Telus (constant over billing), but Rogers couldn't compete for coverage in the field (especially north alberta).

My new company is with Telus... and there's constant over-billing as well. We have to watch the bill like a hawk. But same reason we can't switch from Telus is because of poor/no coverage in the outlaying areas in Alberta.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by photon

Another thing to consider is when Telus rolls out their 3G network will it likely be to densely populated areas as well, just like Rogers.

First of all, while you can have an iPhone without 3G, like having any other smartphone without 3G, it wouldn't make sense, and I doubt people even do it.

Even if you want the iPhone just for the apps, wouldn't you need 3G coverage to download them? Or use them?

Also, this is where Telus has 3G coverage already. Might be surprising.



That map is from 2007. I would assume that they added more coverage since then.

Rogers on the other hand...



The red is GSM? 3G? The yellow is 3.5G.

Oh, according to their site, in the red areas, you can call and text message. In the yellow areas you have high speed internet access. So, only in major cities would you have high speed internet on a iPhone.

Everywhere else, there is no point to having a iPhone.

With Telus on the other hand, you have high speed internet access throughout the province. Even in remote areas. And with their new network, that coverage will probably get better.

So, again I say....if Apple has a deal with Rogers only, that would mean they're not very smart. Telus has been working on the new network for how long? A few years?

Surely Apple could have talked to them at that time and confirm whether the network will be GSM or not.

But, like the Americans, we Canadians are stuck with a crap-poor service provider that is allowed to have the iPhone.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Azure

First of all, while you can have an iPhone without 3G, like having any other smartphone without 3G, it wouldn't make sense, and I doubt people even do it.

Why? I didn't have 3G in Chestermere for quite a while, but my phone still works. EDGE still has data, it's just not as fast. Email, games, surfing all still work, surfing is just slower than on 3G (slow enough to make it annoying).

The first iPhone didn't have 3G remember, and tons of people used it.

Originally Posted by Azure

Even if you want the iPhone just for the apps, wouldn't you need 3G coverage to download them? Or use them?

No, 3G does not equal data coverage, 3G just means 3rd generation.. 3G is more like a fancy way of saying "fast", it's not a technical specification. Without 3G there's still data coverage, just slower. Sorry I should have been more specific in my previous post.

Originally Posted by Azure

Also, this is where Telus has 3G coverage already. Might be surprising.



That map is from 2007. I would assume that they added more coverage since then.

That's where they have their high speed (3rd generation) CDMA network. Not their new GSM network, which will require all new hardware and possibly new towers (due to the distance constraints I mentioned). The iPhone can't communicate to a single dot of coverage on that map. I would be shocked if Telus' GSM coverage covered the same area as Rogers' at launch, let alone Telus's CDMA network. The cost would be staggering. Though I would love the competition!

Originally Posted by Azure

Rogers on the other hand...



The red is GSM? 3G? The yellow is 3.5G.

All of it is GSM, the red is EDGE (slow) the yellow fast (3G, 3.5G). No doubt that Telus' coverage is far better for outlying areas, but again that extended coverage doesn't help Telus at all for the iPhone.

Originally Posted by Azure

Oh, according to their site, in the red areas, you can call and text message. In the yellow areas you have high speed internet access. So, only in major cities would you have high speed internet on a iPhone.

Everywhere else, there is no point to having a iPhone.

Not sure where you saw that on the site, but the red says EDGE which is the only data the 1st generation iPhone was capable of; I've been a lot of places in the red and used my iPhone to get email and maps and stuff.. surfing is painful but still works.

Originally Posted by Azure

With Telus on the other hand, you have high speed internet access throughout the province. Even in remote areas. And with their new network, that coverage will probably get better.

No doubt, but that network is CDMA, the iPhone can't use it. The new network will require all new hardware and possibly even new towers. I hope Telus blankets Alberta with GSM to the point that they have CDMA now, that would be true competition.

Originally Posted by Azure

So, again I say....if Apple has a deal with Rogers only, that would mean they're not very smart. Telus has been working on the new network for how long? A few years?

Surely Apple could have talked to them at that time and confirm whether the network will be GSM or not.

Sure, but if Rogers offered more $$ than the difference in people was, it still makes more sense for Apple. Or they knew that Telus' GSM was going to be limited to major centers for long enough to make the exclusivity with Rogers make sense. Too many variables to know why the decision was made, the only thing I'm sure of is it was driven by $$ for Apple.

Originally Posted by Azure

But, like the Americans, we Canadians are stuck with a crap-poor service provider that is allowed to have the iPhone.

Well no, when the iPhone launched there was only one service provider that could possibly have the iPhone; Rogers. And that's still true today and until Telus and/or Bell launch a GSM network.

[Azure]

Wouldn't they use the same towers that they use now?

How are the Rogers towers with GSM different from the Telus towers that have high speed in rural areas?

Also, according to the Rogers site, the red area was for 'voice and text messaging'....and the yellow areas was for 'high speed internet access.'

They never pointed out that you can still get internet in certain rural areas. I actually don't know if you can, because the Rogers tower in our area does not have it. Therefore, there are very few Rogers customers around here. Most people go with Bell or Telus due to high speed browsing.

And, outside of rumors, is there even any confirmation that Telus will be going with GSM? If Apple has a iPhone that will be HSPA capable, why even develop a GSM network?

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Azure

Wouldn't they use the same towers that they use now?

How are the Rogers towers with GSM different from the Telus towers that have high speed in rural areas?

Also, according to the Rogers site, the red area was for 'voice and text messaging'....and the yellow areas was for 'high speed internet access.'

They never pointed out that you can still get internet in certain rural areas. I actually don't know if you can, because the Rogers tower in our area does not have it. Therefore, there are very few Rogers customers around here. Most people go with Bell or Telus due to high speed browsing.

And, outside of rumors, is there even any confirmation that Telus will be going with GSM? If Apple has a iPhone that will be HSPA capable, why even develop a GSM network?

HSPA is in the family of GSM technologies. The iPhone 3G is an HSPA phone. The first one wasn't. It was a GSM/EDGE phone

The red in your zRogers map is GSM/EDGE and the yellow is WCDMA/HSPA and Telus is CDMA2000/EV-DO and are now moving to WCDMA/HSPA.

[Azure]

Do, you're saying that there is a good chance Telus will have the iPhone?

Assuming of course that Rogers and Apple don't have a deal of some kind.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Azure

Wouldn't they use the same towers that they use now?

If there's room on the tower sure.. but there might not be room on all the towers if the tower is already shared. Plus if there's a gap in coverage on GSM between two towers that didn't exist with CDMA, then they'll have to add another tower, which isn't always easy or cheap.

Originally Posted by Azure

How are the Rogers towers with GSM different from the Telus towers that have high speed in rural areas?

Different technology. GSM and CDMA do things very differently. All of Telus' towers are CDMA, to talk to a GSM phone they have to add hardware to the tower and elsewhere in their system (and add more towers if the coverage isn't sufficient).

Originally Posted by Azure

Also, according to the Rogers site, the red area was for 'voice and text messaging'....and the yellow areas was for 'high speed internet access.'

Well the graph for the red says "EDGE" which means data as well. Maybe just a way it's written up? Or maybe they don't guarantee EDGE in the red areas so they just list voice and text.

Originally Posted by Azure

They never pointed out that you can still get internet in certain rural areas. I actually don't know if you can, because the Rogers tower in our area does not have it. Therefore, there are very few Rogers customers around here. Most people go with Bell or Telus due to high speed browsing.

And that's true of a good # of rural areas.. but I have a friend who bought a Rogers internet stick because Telus's internet doesn't work in his area, and I've been to a good # of areas in that red and have had a data connection no problem (and been to a few where I got only voice).

Originally Posted by Azure

And, outside of rumors, is there even any confirmation that Telus will be going with GSM? If Apple has a iPhone that will be HSPA capable, why even develop a GSM network?

HSPA is part of GSM.

EDIT: Too slow lol.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Azure

Do, you're saying that there is a good chance Telus will have the iPhone?

Assuming of course that Rogers and Apple don't have a deal of some kind.

Could be, there are other countries that have multiple carriers, though I don't know all the relationships of the carries all around the world, so they could be like Rogers/Fido.. that's two carriers, but Fido is owned by Rogers.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1937

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Azure

Do, you're saying that there is a good chance Telus will have the iPhone?

Assuming of course that Rogers and Apple don't have a deal of some kind.

An iPhone 3g or 3gs will work on the network Telus and Bell are rolling out. Will it work in rural areas in 3G as their current high speed does? Doubt it. Telus and Bell would have to do a lot of work to get even the coverage that Rogers currently has.

I don't think that they would have any EDGE support either so the phone would be pretty useless outside of urban areas.

[Azure]

Well, you make the assumption that Telus won't upgrade all their towers.

Including those in the rural areas. I don't know if they will, just wondering.

[photon]

If they are migrating to GSM then they will have to upgrade all their coverage eventually, but it's just a question of timing and resources and cost. The network they have now took a long time and a lot of $$ to setup, to switch over is a HUGE effort, I'm just saying it'd be very surprising if they tried to do it all at once.

More likely they start with the urban areas first and then extend.. run a hybrid network for a time (or permanently, keep CDMA for rural and switch to GSM for urban, and sell dual mode phones).

[GrrlGoalie33]

I have heard Telus GSM is supposed to be "opening for business" in southern ontario this month...

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Frankster

I have heard Telus GSM is supposed to be "opening for business" in southern ontario this month...

I certainly hope so. Without this getting into a nerd pissing match, does it essentially mean you can buy a grey market phone and use it on Telus' network by just having a sim-card? Or do you have to call Telus like it is now, and ask them to activate it?

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by fleury

I certainly hope so. Without this getting into a nerd pissing match, does it essentially mean you can buy a grey market phone and use it on Telus' network by just having a sim-card? Or do you have to call Telus like it is now, and ask them to activate it?

I have no clue what will actually happen, but history tells me that Telus will figure out a way to rig the whole thing so you still have to get them to activate your phones, instead of just a simple little sim card transfer like it should be.

[FanIn80]

I posted this in the wrong thread earlier... but wow...

http://www.macrumors.com/2009/10/05/...nd-next-month/

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I posted this in the wrong thread earlier... but wow...

http://www.macrumors.com/2009/10/05/...nd-next-month/

I read about this this evening. I'm just curious for the other shoe to fall with Telus and Bell offering subpar rate and data plans for it. Anyone know if Rogers' version could be now used on the Telus and Bell network?

[Julio]

A bit more mainstream coverage of Bell and Telus getting the new network and such...
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1312692/