Obama address to Congress

[T@T]

Being a Canadian and don't fully understand US healthcare (other than it's somewhat ######ed costs) but can someone explain why the Canadian or British systems can't work there?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Stumptown

And why has "proper reform" not taken place in the 20-odd years that everyone in the country has known that it's been badly needed? Because the medical-pharmaceutical industry have bought enough congresspeople to keep it from happening. The only reform that the Rs are going to accept is no reform at all. That's why.

You do realize that the Democrats don't even need the Republicans to reform health care, right?

[Thor]

Originally Posted by T@T

Being a Canadian and don't fully understand US healthcare (other than it's somewhat ######ed costs) but can someone explain why the Canadian or British systems can't work there?

Best as I understand it, that industry makes 1/6th of the economy, it would be devestating to start from scratch so their only choice is to tweak and repair problems.

The public option which could workside with their current system is struggling because there is a huge pressure put on from this lucritive industry to stop it, they know it will cut into their profits, alongside the fact they know with the reforms their profits will go down anyhow.

Its a disaster to watch all this unfold, makes me hate American politics more than I already did, so much special interest pushing their agenda, scared congresspeople and senators doing whats in their own best interest to get re-elected over doing real change.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Azure

You do realize that the Democrats don't even need the Republicans to reform health care, right?

That is what is so emberassing for the Democrats, what a bunch of idiots that party has.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Thor

That is what is so emberassing for the Democrats, what a bunch of idiots that party has.

And a few years ago we could have said the same thing about the Republicans.

Fact is, US politics is screwed.

Completely screwed.

[moon]

Originally Posted by T@T

Being a Canadian and don't fully understand US healthcare (other than it's somewhat ######ed costs) but can someone explain why the Canadian or British systems can't work there?

Well for one the Canadian system doesn't even work here so not sure why they would want it down there.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Thor

Best as I understand it, that industry makes 1/6th of the economy, it would be devestating to start from scratch so their only choice is to tweak and repair problems.

I read 2/3rds of all bankruptcies are because of people not being able to pay the costs when they really need it, surly that 1/6th is a little miss-leading.

Originally Posted by moon

Well for one the Canadian system doesn't even work here so not sure why they would want it down there.

Have you ever been seriously sick and in dire need? to say it doesn't work is just not right, I broke my leg twice (which isn't even considered serious really) but in the states those would have cost me $10000.00, here? gas to get to therapy.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by moon

Well for one the Canadian system doesn't even work here so not sure why they would want it down there.

Our system is far from perfect, but

Canadian Healthcare>>>>>>>>>>>>>>US "Healthcare"

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by T@T

I read 2/3rds of all bankruptcies are because of people not being able to pay the costs when they really need it, surly that 1/6th is a little miss-leading.


Have you ever been seriously sick and in dire need? to say it doesn't work is just not right, I broke my leg twice (which isn't even considered serious really) but in the states those would have cost me $10000.00, here? gas to get to therapy.

My best friend fataed up his shoulder back in December, and after being given the run around for 6 months, given Ibuprofen and told it would go away, he now appears to have a pinched nerve. But his insurance, through his employer, won't cover surgery, won't cover physical therapy. So if he wants to get his shoulder fixed (which is necessary for parts of his job), he has to foot 75% of the bills himself--and he just can't afford that, not with a crappy paying job. And he lives in Michigan, so he's just lucky to even have a job.

If you have a health issue, it can completely and totally destroy you financially. And the insurance companies just keep lining their pockets deeper and deeper and deeper. Gotta love that.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

My best friend fataed up his shoulder back in December, and after being given the run around for 6 months, given Ibuprofen and told it would go away, he now appears to have a pinched nerve. But his insurance, through his employer, won't cover surgery, won't cover physical therapy. So if he wants to get his shoulder fixed (which is necessary for parts of his job), he has to foot 75% of the bills himself--and he just can't afford that, not with a crappy paying job. And he lives in Michigan, so he's just lucky to even have a job.

If you have a health issue, it can completely and totally destroy you financially. And the insurance companies just keep lining their pockets deeper and deeper and deeper. Gotta love that.

And there are far worst stories, A friend of the family who lives in florida lost their house because their 9 year old girl got cancer, thankfully Megan is now ok but the family has to completely rebuild all they worked for including a 30g loan they got from the grandparents to buy their first house.

[Azure]

30 grand wouldn't even be a lot if you look at some other health care costs.

Back surgery to repair a herniated disk at Mayo Clinic costs around 50 grand.

I'm sure open-heart surgery is a lot more than that.

But, you have to realize that you can't simply make those costs go away. Adding the public option only ensures that you end up paying more taxes. Because it won't make the insane overhead costs go away. If anything they'll get worse.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by T@T

And there are far worst stories, A friend of the family who lives in florida lost their house because their 9 year old girl got cancer, thankfully Megan is now ok but the family has to completely rebuild all they worked for including a 30g loan they got from the grandparents to buy their first house.

Exactly, there are some terrible stories. And these aren't people on welfare, these aren't drains on society we're talking about. These are average working adults, who pay taxes and are valuable members of communities, who have their entire lives destroyed because of medical bills. As if the emotional toll of something like cancer isn't enough, then the financial toll ends up being more than they can handle, and they lose everything.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

Exactly, there are some terrible stories. And these aren't people on welfare, these aren't drains on society we're talking about. These are average working adults, who pay taxes and are valuable members of communities, who have their entire lives destroyed because of medical bills. As if the emotional toll of something like cancer isn't enough, then the financial toll ends up being more than they can handle, and they lose everything.

And they should be able to have GOOD health care coverage.

I absolutely agree with that, I just don't think the Federal Government can make it happen.

And apparently I have a long list of social program failures to back me up.

[Thor]

Isn't it the case that the US is sooo rich that the very powerful wealthy interests will always win against a incompetant Congress and corruptable senate?

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Azure

30 grand wouldn't even be a lot if you look at some other health care costs.

Back surgery to repair a herniated disk at Mayo Clinic costs around 50 grand.

I'm sure open-heart surgery is a lot more than that.

But, you have to realize that you can't simply make those costs go away. Adding the public option only ensures that you end up paying more taxes. Because it won't make the insane overhead costs go away. If anything they'll get worse.

A guy in Calgary had it done in Vegas after having a heart attact,he needed a pacemaker,defibrillator the whole bit. he didn't take out travel insurance (dummy) and the bill was 387k. that was about 10 years ago

Needless to say...the Americans never seen their money.

[T@T]

Speech on CNN right now.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Thor

Isn't it the case that the US is sooo rich that the very powerful wealthy interests will always win against a incompetant Congress and corruptable senate?

Especially if Obama broke his promise regarding lobby groups.

When he said he would enforce that, I honestly figured something was going to change.

"I am in this race to tell the corporate lobbyists that their days of setting the agenda in Washington are over. I have done more than any other candidate in this race to take on lobbyists—and won. They have not funded my campaign, they will not run my White House, and they will not drown out the voices of the American people."

turns out it was nothing more than a bunch of political pandering.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by Azure

Especially if Obama broke his promise regarding lobby groups.

When he said he would enforce that, I honestly figured something was going to change.



turns out it was nothing more than a bunch of political pandering.

The issue is that despite being the single most powerful man in the country--even if he was going to live up to that, there are two other branches of government full of politicians who will deal with lobby groups, who have connections with special interest parties, etc. Not just Republicans, not just Democrats.

And I'm not saying a Federal program is the answer, not by a long shot. The government--at every level--screws up a lot of things on a regular basis. But I'm just sick of the "Oh, SOCIALISM!" cries from people (not those in this thread) who have no idea what is actually going on, who have no facts and just complain because Fox News tells them to.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by moon

Well for one the Canadian system doesn't even work here so not sure why they would want it down there.

Tell that to a poor person that has no health insurance or has their HMO turn down treatment for something that will mean death.

[T@T]

Obama: nobody will go broke in America because they get sick...