Massachusetts Senator Ted Kennedy is dead

[Azure]

RIP.

I think.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

Good god, I would love to know where in anything regarding Chappaquiddick incident it is alleged that he abandoned Mary Jo. It has been alleged that he drove negilgently, it has even been alleged that he may have been over the limit, but never has it been alleged that he got himself out of the vehicle and abandoned her.

Only a Kennedy-worshipping commie would say that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chappaquiddick_incident

[Azure]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

Good god, I would love to know where in anything regarding Chappaquiddick incident it is alleged that he abandoned Mary Jo. It has been alleged that he drove negilgently, it has even been alleged that he may have been over the limit, but never has it been alleged that he got himself out of the vehicle and abandoned her.

Yeah, either he was drunk, so he killed her by driving drunk, or he just left her there...which would also mean he killed her.

After the body was found, Kennedy gave a statement to police saying that on the previous night he had taken a wrong turn and accidentally driven his car off a bridge into the water. He pleaded guilty to a charge of leaving the scene of an accident after causing injury, and received a suspended sentence.

But hey, he was a Kennedy.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

Good god, I would love to know where in anything regarding Chappaquiddick incident it is alleged that he abandoned Mary Jo. It has been alleged that he drove negilgently, it has even been alleged that he may have been over the limit, but never has it been alleged that he got himself out of the vehicle and abandoned her.

I would say the point that he left the car, walked past a number of houses, didn't call authorities for help immediately, went to sleep, woke up talked to people, still didn't call the police and then went into the police station at 10:00 the next morning, almost 11 hours after the accident occured.

That seems like abandoning someone in my opinion.

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Only a Kennedy-worshipping commie would say that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chappaquiddick_incident

Wikipedia is a great source, but I will cite it as you did as well:

"The car plunged into tide-swept Poucha Pond (at that location a channel) and came to rest upside-down underwater. Kennedy later recalled that he was able to swim free of the vehicle, but Kopechne was not. Kennedy claimed at the inquest that he called Kopechne's name several times from the shore, then tried to swim down to reach her seven or eight times, then rested on the bank for around fifteen minutes before returning on foot to Lawrence Cottage"

According to Kennedy's testimony, Gargan and party co-host Paul Markham then returned to the pond with Kennedy to try to rescue Kopechne. Both of the other men also tried to dive into the water and rescue Kopechne multiple times."

It appears that Kennedy made multiple attempts to rescue Mary Jo.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Leave the politics at the door.

I hope the Republicans give him a proper tribute.

RIP Kennedy.

There goes one of Obama's public option votes.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

Wikipedia is a great source, but I will cite it as you did as well:

"The car plunged into tide-swept Poucha Pond (at that location a channel) and came to rest upside-down underwater. Kennedy later recalled that he was able to swim free of the vehicle, but Kopechne was not. Kennedy claimed at the inquest that he called Kopechne's name several times from the shore, then tried to swim down to reach her seven or eight times, then rested on the bank for around fifteen minutes before returning on foot to Lawrence Cottage"

According to Kennedy's testimony, Gargan and party co-host Paul Markham then returned to the pond with Kennedy to try to rescue Kopechne. Both of the other men also tried to dive into the water and rescue Kopechne multiple times."

It appears that Kennedy made multiple attempts to rescue Mary Jo.

See the post above yours for the non-Camelot summary.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

It appears that Kennedy made multiple attempts to rescue Mary Jo.

Along the way passing a number of closer houses and didn't call the police, then decided to take a nap. Say what you will about the guys politics, but this incident in particular leaves a massive blemish on his personality as well as his place in history.

The question I have for you is whether you think he would be incarcerated if not for his last name?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

Good god, I would love to know where in anything regarding Chappaquiddick incident it is alleged that he abandoned Mary Jo. It has been alleged that he drove negilgently, it has even been alleged that he may have been over the limit, but never has it been alleged that he got himself out of the vehicle and abandoned her.

In July 1969, Kopechne's dead body was discovered inside an overturned car belonging to Senator Edward "Ted" Kennedy of Massachusetts under water in a tidal channel on Chappaquiddick Island, Massachusetts.

After the body was found, Kennedy gave a statement to police saying that on the previous night he had taken a wrong turn and accidentally driven his car off a bridge into the water. He pleaded guilty to a charge of leaving the scene of an accident after causing injury, and received a suspended sentence.

He didn't even try to call the police or rescue.

Thats abandonment.

According to his inquest testimony, Kennedy made a wrong turn onto Dike Road, an unlit dirt road that led to Dike Bridge (also spelled Dyke Bridge). Dike Road was unpaved, but Kennedy, driving at "approximately twenty miles an hour", took "no particular notice" of this fact, and did not realize that he was no longer headed towards the ferry landing.[6] Dike Bridge was a wooden bridge angled obliquely to the road with no guardrail. A fraction of a second before he reached the bridge, Kennedy applied his brakes; he then drove over the side of the bridge. The car plunged into tide-swept Poucha Pond (at that location a channel) and came to rest upside-down underwater. Kennedy later recalled that he was able to swim free of the vehicle, but Kopechne was not. Kennedy claimed at the inquest that he called Kopechne's name several times from the shore, then tried to swim down to reach her seven or eight times, then rested on the bank for around fifteen minutes before returning on foot to Lawrence Cottage, where the party attended by Kopechne and other "Boiler Room Girls" had occurred. Kennedy denied seeing any house with a light on during his journey back to Lawrence Cottage.[7]

According to his own testimony, Kennedy swam across the 500-foot channel, back to Edgartown and returned to his hotel room, where he removed his clothes and collapsed on his bed.[12] Hearing noises, he later put on dry clothes and asked someone what the time was: it was something like 2:30 a.m., the senator recalled. He testified that, as the night went on, "I almost tossed and turned and walked around that room ... I had not given up hope all night long that, by some miracle, Mary Jo would have escaped from the car."[13]

To me, this was more about him making sure that he was sober, or praying that the body would never be found.

To me the man was never suitable to be president after that, he had always suffered from low moral character, there were better men out there to run the nation.

He did everything he could to cover up the accident and minimize his role in it.

[mykalberta]

Wow. I never knew that about the blowhard.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

Wikipedia is a great source, but I will cite it as you did as well:

"The car plunged into tide-swept Poucha Pond (at that location a channel) and came to rest upside-down underwater. Kennedy later recalled that he was able to swim free of the vehicle, but Kopechne was not. Kennedy claimed at the inquest that he called Kopechne's name several times from the shore, then tried to swim down to reach her seven or eight times, then rested on the bank for around fifteen minutes before returning on foot to Lawrence Cottage"

According to Kennedy's testimony, Gargan and party co-host Paul Markham then returned to the pond with Kennedy to try to rescue Kopechne. Both of the other men also tried to dive into the water and rescue Kopechne multiple times."

It appears that Kennedy made multiple attempts to rescue Mary Jo.

I could stab a man to death and then testify that I tried to save him by performing CPR because I was so sorry.

The fact that he went to bed, didn't call the police the next morning, shows that he was pretty scuzzy.

[Flashpoint]

Boston News Article about Chappawhatchamacallit

The black sedan was in flight. It hit the water and sank, settling upside down in the pond.

The next thing Kennedy knew was that he was going to die.

"There was complete blackness," he said later, according to a court transcript. "Water seemed to rush in from every point, from the windshield, from underneath me, above me."

Conscious of Kopechne struggling beside him, he lifted the driver's door handle and pressed. Nothing happened.

He drew what he believed was his last breath.

And then, somehow, he escaped, "pushing, pressing, and coming up to the surface" with "no idea in the world how I got out of that car."

He would recall being swept away by the tide, calling out Kopechne's name as he drifted. He said he recovered his footing and waded back to the car through waist-deep water, guided by the glow of the headlights underwater.

He dove below the surface, trying to get to Kopechne. He failed, and tried again, seven or eight times in all. By then he was exhausted, barely able to hold his breath.

Finally, he let himself float away. He crawled onto shore and lay there, coughing and gasping. Then he staggered up the bank and started back up Dike Road, "walking, trotting, jogging, stumbling, as fast as I possibly could."

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

Boston News Article about Chappawhatchamacallit

Yes, Ted was the victim...

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

Boston News Article about Chappawhatchamacallit

That article and a New York Times piece from the mid 70's are the best two in-depth articles I have seen on the subject. In my opinion, abandonment would mean that he made no effort to save the girl, he states he made efforts to save her and I believe he did. If anyone actually thinks that a man who had legitimate Presidential ambitions at the time was "hoping" that she was dead or as has been stated in this forum, was dumb enough to "pray" the body would never be found in an inlet that was 4 feet deep is deluding themselves.

Mary Jo had an awful lot of quiet friends over the years who never said anything about Kennedy allegedly drinking way past the limit that evening. If the guy was as drunk as most Conservatives like to make him out to be, one would think that at least one of the 5 close friends of Mary Jo would have said something at some point in time, perhaps even at an judicial inquiry held by Judge Boyle when they were under oath.

As for whether he would have been charged if his name was Smith, I doubt it. I think the prosecution would have had a hard time with no witnesses to prove that he was driving negligently to pass a beyond a reasonable doubt test.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

That article and a New York Times piece from the mid 70's are the best two in-depth articles I have seen on the subject. In my opinion, abandonment would mean that he made no effort to save the girl, he states he made efforts to save her and I believe he did. If anyone actually thinks that a man who had legitimate Presidential ambitions at the time was "hoping" that she was dead or as has been stated in this forum, was dumb enough to "pray" the body would never be found in an inlet that was 4 feet deep is deluding themselves.

Hahaha - what a surprise - you think the best articles have been written by the newspaper of the Democratic Party and the Kennedy hometown press agent. He forgot to call the police did he? Too distraught? Too drunk? Please.

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Hahaha - what a surprise - you think the best articles have been written by the newspaper of the Democratic Party and the Kennedy hometown press agent. He forgot to call the police did he? Too distraught? Too drunk? Please.

And you cited Wikipedia ....

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

And you cited Wikipedia ....

What did you want me to cite for a quick summary of the story? Is Wikipedia part of the vast right-wing conspiracy? Please englighten me.

[CaptainCrunch]

except in this case Wiki pretty much follows witness testimoney and the inquest results.

As soon as he decided not to call the cops, went to bed, slept off his drunkeness, and still woke up the next morning and didn't call the cops and waited til the body was basically found points to abandonment.

I always have trouble with non-corraborated witness statements where he heroically dove looking for her 8 times in a as you put it 4 foot deep inlet and couldn't find her.

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Yes, Ted was the victim...

Just posting an article I thought was a pretty good synopsis about a situation I knew little about. Not making a statement either way, and didn't want quote more than his account of the accident.

[flip]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I alwayshoped and expected him to become president some day and a lot of people were disappointed. Here I'm listening to CNN say he wasn't afraid of the nutbars out there killing him like they did his brothers but IIRC this was the reason given why he didn't make a good run for president. Another era is over unless Obama can carry it on.
RIP.

Originally Posted by Delgar

Really? His not making a "good run for" president has almost nothing to with his brothers being assassinated and almost everything to do with Chappaquiddick. He put a lot of feelers out for a good run and was warned. He could shake the stigma in his home district but nationally he'd have been sunk.

RIP--- very much a flawed character who did lots of good overshadowed by a few very bad choices.

Wait, what are you guys talking about?

Ted Kennedy DID make a run for President in 1980 and lost because he couldn't properly answer a question about why he wanted to be president.

It is one of the most famous campaign blunders in history and Kennedy likely would have been President had it not been for his terrible blunder.

After that his blunder was so famous he would have had a hard time ever running again.