Do you believe in alchemy, tithes and leeching too? What's old is simply just that sometimes: OLD. Evolution is not simply on a physical level sometimes.
Citing centuries old insurrections does nothing to make me think this is something that ought to be adopted by Canada, and is thus a bad idea. Do Americans really need a cache of weapons at their personal disposal? I don't, regardless of what someone in a powdered wig conjured up 250 years ago.
Doesn't matter. It's the principle that counts. The US Bill of Rights is nice in that all the rights apply to everyone, all the time.
In Canada, our Charter has been picked apart to the point that even the simplest right, such as freedom of speech applies sometimes, but not always, and in measured quantities.
__________________ “The fact is that censorship always defeats it's own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion.”
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Yeah, USA! Woooooooooo!!! America, f*** yeah! Do you want to arm wrestle? I was so inspired by your rhetoric I'm going to driver a Hummer 160km per hour down a toll highway and blast some Springsteen while tossing gernades and styrofoam containers of the Big Macs I just inhaled on the side of the road. The US is the best! That's why they have never lost a war.
No one died this time. What about next time or the time after that? How many presidents of the US have been assassinated? And many, many, MANY civilized nations don't grant their citizens the "god-given right" to bare arms, and like Canada, have a much lower crime and murder rate per capita than the United States. But hey, if people want to carry guns and kill each other in the US, why do I care?
What a dumb post. How many people have been killed at an NRA rally? How many people get killed with guns at gun trading shows? Nobody. Why?
Because your average gun-carrying citizen in the U.S. is not out there killing people and committing crimes with them. People who kill someone with a gun typically buy it on the street, or steal it or whatever. Most gun crimes in the U.S. revolve around the drug trade and gangs, so they get a bad rap. You dont know what you are talking about.
Interestingly, one of the fastest growing segments of the gun market are single women in big cities................but I guess we should all just take guns away from people so they have to wait for the mighty police to show up and save the day while you are bring mugged/raped huh?
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BBS and I were just discussing this yesterday. In Arizona, it's perfectly legal to take your gun to the bar. Great. A bunch of loaded people carrying loaded guns.
If you think that's a good idea, I can't help you.
Sure there are a lot of responsible gun owners, but there are also a lot of "I'm going to show you the hilt of my Colt 45 if you honk at me in traffic" wing nuts out there.
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What a dumb post. How many people have been killed at an NRA rally? How many people get killed with guns at gun trading shows? Nobody. Why?
Because your average gun-carrying citizen in the U.S. is not out there killing people and committing crimes with them. People who kill someone with a gun typically buy it on the street, or steal it or whatever. Most gun crimes in the U.S. revolve around the drug trade and gangs, so they get a bad rap. You dont know what you are talking about.
Interestingly, one of the fastest growing segments of the gun market are single women in big cities................but I guess we should all just take guns away from people so they have to wait for the mighty police to show up and save the day while you are bring mugged/raped huh?
So you refute a perceived dumb post with something stupid? Bravo. I don't recall ever mentioning the NRA or trade shows in my post. I was simply talking about guns in general.
I like how you say average citizens with guns don't kill people. What, did murders or criminals have some kind of supercitizenship prior to committing their crimes? Were they not ordinary citizens before committing crimes?
You seem to be an expert in sociology and criminal pathology so I defer to you. Obviously you feel that because there are no shootings at NRA or trade shows (gatherings of like-minded gun enthusiasts), guns are not a problem. Way to pick your sample size. If you don't see anything wrong with someone carrying an assault riffle to a public forum, I sincerely don't want to live anywhere near you. If you don't see that the average citizen absolutely has no need for an assault riffle, you have problems. I am sure you also support get a free assault riffle when you open a chequing account type offers, don't you?
Last edited by Cactus Jack; 08-18-2009 at 10:19 AM.
What a dumb post. How many people have been killed at an NRA rally? How many people get killed with guns at gun trading shows? Nobody. Why?
Because your average gun-carrying citizen in the U.S. is not out there killing people and committing crimes with them. People who kill someone with a gun typically buy it on the street, or steal it or whatever. Most gun crimes in the U.S. revolve around the drug trade and gangs, so they get a bad rap. You dont know what you are talking about.
Interestingly, one of the fastest growing segments of the gun market are single women in big cities................but I guess we should all just take guns away from people so they have to wait for the mighty police to show up and save the day while you are bring mugged/raped huh?
While I respect the second ammendment and the purpose behind it, I have to mention that the people who are in the "I'm buying guns for the protetction of my home" crowd are more likely to shoot their teenage daughter at 2 AM when she's sneaking back into the house after being out with some boy than some guy robbing their home.
While I respect the second ammendment and the purpose behind it, I have to mention that the people who are in the "I'm buying guns for the protetction of my home" crowd are more likely to shoot their teenage daughter at 2 AM when she's sneaking back into the house after being out with some boy than some guy robbing their home.
Stats/link? More than 50% of all uses of guns kept in the home for protection result in shooting an innocent family member? Or is that just a popular retort supported only by a relatively few tragic news stories that are celebrated by anti-gun lobbyists? Each side has their sensationalized stories and statistics... they aren't really productive to use in discussion.
I think assault rifles are extreme and would have no problem if they were banned, but handguns, rifles, shotguns too? Impossible to make happen and the result would be similar to prohibition - huge black market, unsavory individuals making big jack over it and a police force focusing on petty offenses.
The issues of enforcement also delve into areas of American Law and fundamental beliefs that are beyond just the 2nd Amendment. Fundamental areas that absolutely will never be changed. It's actually not even worth trying, IMO.
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What a dumb post. How many people have been killed at an NRA rally? How many people get killed with guns at gun trading shows? Nobody. Why?
Because your average gun-carrying citizen in the U.S. is not out there killing people and committing crimes with them. People who kill someone with a gun typically buy it on the street, or steal it or whatever. Most gun crimes in the U.S. revolve around the drug trade and gangs, so they get a bad rap. You dont know what you are talking about.
Interestingly, one of the fastest growing segments of the gun market are single women in big cities................but I guess we should all just take guns away from people so they have to wait for the mighty police to show up and save the day while you are bring mugged/raped huh?
How quickly we forget. How many people died at Columbine because some punk kids were able to easily get guns.(One was bought at a trade show I do beleive.)
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How quickly we forget. How many people died at Columbine because some punk kids were able to easily get guns.(One was bought at a trade show I do beleive.)
They were bought by a third party and sold to Klebold and Harris... they did not acquire them directly from a gunshow.
Although Cho (VT Shooting) did acquire his weapon legally despite mental conditions.
I love it when Canadians bash Americans over there right to carry arms. I suggest you read a US History book sometime. They actually had to FIGHT for their independence, they didnt just let some oppressive British regime run them into the ground and then negotiate their peaceful release. There is a reason its a constitutional right. Because the founding fathers in their wisdom knew that everyone who has power, will at some point try to use that power against those not in power. And those not in power need some way to fight back, in the US that is by private citizens owning assault rifles among other things.
I know exactly what you mean.
In the old days, people used to have to turn a crank on the front of their cars in order to get them to start. I still carry a crank in the trunk of my 2005 Cavalier in case I ever need to use it to start it.
I mean... it worked for cars 80 years ago, it should work today.
I love it when Canadians bash Americans over there right to carry arms. I suggest you read a US History book sometime. They actually had to FIGHT for their independence, they didnt just let some oppressive British regime run them into the ground and then negotiate their peaceful release. There is a reason its a constitutional right. Because the founding fathers in their wisdom knew that everyone who has power, will at some point try to use that power against those not in power. And those not in power need some way to fight back, in the US that is by private citizens owning assault rifles among other things.
Did that person fire his Assault rifle at that rally? Did anyone die at that rally? Did anyone strap C4 to their chest and blow up any protesters? Comparing them to jihadist pricks is sickening.
And I suggest you look at their murder rates.
What I really love is the supposed sanctity of the US Constitution. I know it's One Nation Under God, but seriously, the founding fathers weren't demi-god prophets, they were humans and as such subject to the limitations of humans - in that they were imperfect and as such could have crafted an imperfect document. Its natural for constitutions to evolve, but Americans today seem to think that theirs is divine, like if it's in the Constitution then it must be right. Well that's wrong!
What makes this all funny though, is that the founding fathers recognized this, and put in a process to add to the constitution (although curiously, none to edit and delete text). And guess what, it's the 2nd amendment... if that doesn't tell you that the US Constitution was intended to be a fluid document then I don't know what will. It's time for the 22nd amendment to repeal the 2nd, just as the 21st repealed the 18th (prohibition).
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Yeah, another gun control (sort of) thread.
As far as people I know, I'm about as pro gun as you can get. I own 6 guns (including 1 hand gun), but I have never in my life thought to myself "Damn, it sure would be great if I had my .45 with me right now."
I've seen a lot of people on other forums and sometimes in person, go off about how they need a gun to protect their family and their home. My response is simple. How many people do you know that have acutually needed to, let alone succesfully defeded their family with a gun? You're defending against such an unlikely event it's just silly.
Hell, my father is even more pro gun than I am, and when my folks were concerned about my mom spending time alone up at our lake cabin, did he think it was a good idea for her to keep a gun around? Nope, bear spray will do just fine, because if the worst happens, she can't accidentally kill a neighbour, or get killed herself by bearspray.
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So you refute a perceived dumb post with something stupid? Bravo. I don't recall ever mentioning the NRA or trade shows in my post. I was simply talking about guns in general.
I like how you say average citizens with guns don't kill people. What, did murders or criminals have some kind of supercitizenship prior to committing their crimes? Were they not ordinary citizens before committing crimes?
You seem to be an expert in sociology and criminal pathology so I defer to you. Obviously you feel that because there are no shootings at NRA or trade shows (gatherings of like-minded gun enthusiasts), guns are not a problem. Way to pick your sample size. If you don't see anything wrong with someone carrying an assault riffle to a public forum, I sincerely don't want to live anywhere near you. If you don't see that the average citizen absolutely has no need for an assault riffle, you have problems. I am sure you also support get a free assault riffle when you open a chequing account type offers, don't you?
I called your post dumb because you came off as one of these ranting, anti-gun, politically correct a-holes that I can't stand.
Well, if someone wanted to kill you, would it matter if it was an assault weapon or a pistol? You are dead either way. The guy was carrying the rifle because he was at that type of event. What I was saying was, your typical gun owning citizen goes to the gun store and buys a gun legally with whatever identification/licence is required. You seem to have a problem with this........
Your average inner-city gangster street thug who has a criminal record of some kind cannot buy a gun legally at the store, so he gets it off the street. Like I said, guns get a bad rap because of inner city violence revolving around the drug trade and gangs.............guns are not the problem. You take all the guns away, and then only the illegal street guns are in circulation, and the criminals job is now easier because they KNOW you dont have one. The violence will continue.
I can tell you haven't owned a gun.......people hear the word "assault rifle" and immediately think of all the terrorists in action movies they have seen, so there is a sense of fear around them. The fact is that an assault rifle, the AK-47 in particular can be used for hunting, and they work quite well.
How quickly we forget. How many people died at Columbine because some punk kids were able to easily get guns.(One was bought at a trade show I do beleive.)
Well, maybe if they had more relaxed carry laws, one of the people in the building could have stopped the punks from killing as many as they did.
Whatever, you know we see these ######ed Muslim's carrying AK47's and there 12 year old kids with grenades in the middle east and we just think...well there ######in nuts.. but comeon, this is crazy. The day I see a dude with an assault rifle in Calgary is the day I ######ing move the f**& out of here.
What about a dude with a shotgun in his truck?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck
Well, maybe if they had more relaxed carry laws, one of the people in the building could have stopped the punks from killing as many as they did.
Or even more could have died. That argument is dirty, cause it'll go both ways.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck
You take all the guns away, and then only the illegal street guns are in circulation, and the criminals job is now easier because they KNOW you dont have one. The violence will continue.
This is the argument that gets thrown out way too often.
Seriously, for all intents and purposes, this is already the case here in Canada. We can't carry our guns around no the street, and if you're a respnsible gun owner then your guns are stored properly, and aren't going to be much use if someone comes into your home anyway.
How often do you actually think criminals give a lot of thought to whether or not that guy they're about to mug has a gun? Not bloody likely I'd say.
In fact, I'd say that having guns in my home does more to make me worry that I am more likely to be a target of a crime (those looking to steal my guns) than it does to make me feel that criminals will think twice about coming into my home.
And for the record I'm not advocating taking all guns away, as that would make me very sad, and I'd have nothing to do in November. I think Canada has a pretty good compromise. You can own longguns, and under the right circumstances you can own handguns, but you need to have a purpose for it (you must have a range membership), and you can't just carry it around on you all willy nilly.
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Last edited by Bring_Back_Shantz; 08-18-2009 at 11:07 AM.
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