DeVry: Worth it?

[FanIn80]

Awesome. Lots of good infos here. Thanks guys.

Someone from CIS is supposed to be calling me today or tomorrow. I have some questions about the languages the program covers, etc. I'm hoping it isn't going to be 3 years of .Net, but I imagine it probably will be. I'd love to see some ruby and python in there somewhere... although I do seem to remember something about a course on object-oriented languages...

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Anyone have any first-hand experience with these guys?

By first hand, I mean people with DeVry degrees (not diplomas) who had to look for work afterward, and people on the other side who are doing the hiring...

My concern is I don't want to invest a pile of time and money into a degree from a place that is just going to get laughed at on my resume in 3-4 years from now.

Until very recently, my daughter worked at Devry. Her job was as a presenter to high school students. She had traveled all over Alberta, also into BC and has been as far east as the Maritimes, talking with HS students about Devry. She knows the school inside and out. If you like, send me a PM and I can arrange for her to answer your questions. She no longer works there so can be completely unbiased but she knows the school as well as anyone, better than almost anyone.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Awesome. Lots of good infos here. Thanks guys.

Someone from CIS is supposed to be calling me today or tomorrow. I have some questions about the languages the program covers, etc. I'm hoping it isn't going to be 3 years of .Net, but I imagine it probably will be. I'd love to see some ruby and python in there somewhere... although I do seem to remember something about a course on object-oriented languages...

Thanks a lot, now I feel old.

When I went, the primary languages were Cobal, Cobal + report Writer. Pascal, Prologue, C/C++ and Dbase IV. Oh and JCL and assembler.

I might as well have taken a course in Attic Greek so that I would have a handle on all of the dead languages.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Thanks a lot, now I feel old.

When I went, the primary languages were Cobal, Cobal + report Writer. Pascal, Prologue, C/C++ and Dbase IV. Oh and JCL and assembler.

I might as well have taken a course in Attic Greek so that I would have a handle on all of the dead languages.

If you had RPG to go along with your JCL and Cobal, we are still using that stuff (extensively). It is far from dead, at least judging from the other companies that we share mainframe space with.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

Until very recently, my daughter worked at Devry. Her job was as a presenter to high school students. She had traveled all over Alberta, also into BC and has been as far east as the Maritimes, talking with HS students about Devry. She knows the school inside and out. If you like, send me a PM and I can arrange for her to answer your questions. She no longer works there so can be completely unbiased but she knows the school as well as anyone, better than almost anyone.

Hey that's awesome, thank you!

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Thanks a lot, now I feel old.

When I went, the primary languages were Cobal, Cobal + report Writer. Pascal, Prologue, C/C++ and Dbase IV. Oh and JCL and assembler.

I might as well have taken a course in Attic Greek so that I would have a handle on all of the dead languages.

Haha, actually I still see some Cobal and C/C++ in their current courses.

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

If you had RPG to go along with your JCL and Cobal, we are still using that stuff (extensively). It is far from dead, at least judging from the other companies that we share mainframe space with.

Funny you should mention that. They have a new major starting up called "Enterprise Computing" that deals with RPG... among other things. It actually sounds pretty interesting, but I don't know what the major companies are still using. The program seems very IBM-influenced.

I'd love to be able to break into oil and gas, and if this is the kind of stuff the big companies are using (Encana, etc), then maybe that's the route I should go.

http://www.devry.edu/programs/comput...-computing.jsp

[Byrns]

In all honesty I've done hiring for my company and I have filtered out the DeVry grads in the past. I would consider the DeVry grad after the SAIT\NAIT & University grads.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Byrns

In all honesty I've done hiring for my company and I have filtered out the DeVry grads in the past. I would consider the DeVry grad after the SAIT\NAIT & University grads.

Can you elaborate on that?

[gottabekd]

For what it's worth...

I've talked to people hiring junior software developers, and asked about DeVry. The sense I got was that it is definitely a step down from a degree from a University. Oh, and someone with just a diploma would hardly receive any consideration.

Also, you asked about languages. Programming languages are just tools. Learning to be a software developer is a whole lot more than learning how to use the tools. I am not familiar with DeVry's curriculum, but I expect if they are giving out a "Bachelor of Science", the curriculum would include the same theory set as a degree from a University.

For example, to receive a Computer Science degree from the U of C you need to take classes in:

linear algebra, discrete mathematics, calculus, statistics, formal logic, algorithms, digital logic design, computability, information structures, networking, databases, operating systems, software engineering overview.

Only the intro courses will really teach you anything about languages. Everything beyond that is about computing concepts. Hopefully that description helps somewhat.

[Swayze11]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Yes, exactly what I'm hoping to avoid.

I'd be attending their CIS program, with a major in Web Application Development. It culminates in a "Bachelor of Science in Computer Information Systems."

This is the exact degree I am in at MRC. I cant say much about the Devry part of it but the MRC program is amazing, I have nothing but positive things to say about it. Its a mix of Computers and Business but more focused on the computer side. Like photon said, we started with around 40 people and currently have about 12 people left, with probably 4 less this coming Fall, so the drop out rate is quite high, but if you are dedicated its a really fun program.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by valo403

Well there are tons of private universities across the US and they don't actively pitch to people, they rely on their reputations. I've always been leery of places that have to convince you that they're credible.

As for hiring, I think it would be dependent on what field you're going into. If it's an area that Devry is pretty established in you might find that you're tying into a decent network of past graduates, but if it's a newer area it might be an uphill battle. I don't have any personal experience with Devry, but I've always found that the more you have to prove that your education is legitimate the less chance you have of being hired.

Not true. I wrote the SAT. Afterwards I was flooded with university pamphlets. Smaller schools will actively recruit for everyone. Schools with better reputations will actively recruit for top candidates.

[Swayze11]

Originally Posted by gottabekd

For what it's worth...

I've talked to people hiring junior software developers, and asked about DeVry. The sense I got was that it is definitely a step down from a degree from a University. Oh, and someone with just a diploma would hardly receive any consideration.

Also, you asked about languages. Programming languages are just tools. Learning to be a software developer is a whole lot more than learning how to use the tools. I am not familiar with DeVry's curriculum, but I expect if they are giving out a "Bachelor of Science", the curriculum would include the same theory set as a degree from a University.

This is 10000% correct, I am currently working as a Junior Developer and they really dont care much about what language you know but how to use it and what the proper way of doing things are. At MRC they teach you correct ways of doing things rather then just focusing on the language, like I said before Devry might do that as well but if you have any questions about the MRC degree you can shoot me a PM.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by gottabekd

I've talked to people hiring junior software developers, and asked about DeVry. The sense I got was that it is definitely a step down from a degree from a University. Oh, and someone with just a diploma would hardly receive any consideration.

Isn't DeVry a university?

Originally Posted by gottabekd

Also, you asked about languages. Programming languages are just tools. Learning to be a software developer is a whole lot more than learning how to use the tools. I am not familiar with DeVry's curriculum, but I expect if they are giving out a "Bachelor of Science", the curriculum would include the same theory set as a degree from a University.

For example, to receive a Computer Science degree from the U of C you need to take classes in:

linear algebra, discrete mathematics, calculus, statistics, formal logic, algorithms, digital logic design, computability, information structures, networking, databases, operating systems, software engineering overview.

Only the intro courses will really teach you anything about languages. Everything beyond that is about computing concepts. Hopefully that description helps somewhat.

Those are very good points, thank you. I wasn't seeing it in those terms, but now I'm not so worried about the specific languages.

[photon]

I went through electronics, but I knew I would be getting into computers. That was a conscious decision because I didn't see the same math and such in the CIS at the time as the electronics. Not sure if that's changed, but from a computer programming knowledge point of view, from what I saw when I was there, and talking to other DeVry CIS grads, I would still stand by my position that if were in a position to have to decide and if I didn't have the full tuition scholarship, I would choose UofC over DeVry.

I think the theory and stuff they cover at UofC is important, a lot of it I wish i had now.

[llama64]

Devry will teach you job skills. And it will take forever and cost you an arm and a leg.

I looked at their offerings a couple years ago and decided against it. If all you want are basic skills (how to code), go to SAIT and do the two year Computer Technology diploma. I did it (after a 4 year BA). They taught me the basics of software development including a fair dose of management and engineering practices. Was actually a decent deal in hindsight.

Now, if you want to know how to design software and systems (vastly different then merely coding), there are really only two options in Calgary. Either a Computer Engineering degree or a Computer Science degree. Both are 4 year programs that delve deep in to theory, algorithm study and the mathematics behind how software works. The engineering program is probably the best program in the city for training actual developers. Had I the time, I would go back and get a major in Engineering just for this degree -- but some how I doubt I could convince my wife to support 4 years of school

Devry will NOT give you the equivalent of a UofC education - make no mistake about that. In my opinion, it's a sham and the people who end up graduating usually reflect back wishing they had gone a different path.

My advice apart from schools:

• Learn the principals of software development - do not focus on any one specific language. Above all, read books about software development. PM for suggestions.
• LEARN HOW TO THINK IN OBJECTS! Structured/Functional programming can be picked up after, but objects are what the world is built on.
• Expect technologies to change. The first language you learn will not be the language you likely end up programming in. I learned in Java, haven't touched it since school.
• Expect to continue learning for the rest of your life. This isn't a field where you get trained in one thing and can continue doing that one thing for 40 years. Become adaptable.
• Once you have the skills, join an open source project you're interested in. Trust me, it's worth the pain.

[ikaris]

I graduated from DeVry in 2003 with a EET degree and I found getting a job in my field initially frustrating. I had to work my way up within my first company working an entry level position but was promoted very quickly (multiple times) and had transitioned quite effectively once I proved my knowledge. This was with a very large communications company in Western Canada.

The great thing is that now I currently work for a multinational company with global recognition and I love my job as it allows me to travel and get awesome experience working with the government.

What sucks it that since I work as an engineer, I had to go through APEGGA to get certified, and while they recognize my experience, I'm having to take multiple courses at UofC or challenge examinations to prove my academic ability. I've already challenged multiple exams and have taken a few courses at UofC and progessing through the APEGGA requirements. Difficulty wise, I find the Electrical courses at UofC very similar, a couple have been easier in fact.

Ultimately working with engineers from universities such as UofC and UofA and seeing the competence level observed, I think it's ultimately about the person who is doing the work and the education is somewhat ignored especially after you have at least 3-5 years of experience. I have also heard that from multiple employers. It seems if you're trying to get your foot in the door, DeVry may be a disadvantage. Once you have experience though, it's all a wash.

Would I do it again? Probably not considering the hassle I'm having to go through now. I'm very fortunate my current employer is paying for my education and allowing me to take time off as necessary and work variable hours to ensure I don't fall behind. Like photon, I had a scholarship as well attending DeVry.

[guzzy]

it's only worth it if you move to the States.

Devry is recognized by employers in Canada. I know one person who went to Devry who actually got a job in his field....in the US.

I know a half dozen guys who never did find work in their field.

[blankall]

Out of curiosity's sake. How much is a semester at Devry?

[FanIn80]

It's about twice as much as SAIT.

I'm getting worried now.

[flamingreen]

ikaris makes a good point. If you ever need to get a professional designation, a Devry degree is really going to hurt you in the long run.

[llama64]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

It's about twice as much as SAIT.

I'm getting worried now.

SAIT gets public funding, our taxes pay for it. Devry gets far less public money (if they get any). Plus, SAIT is locally supported by the industry and fairly well respected. To me, it was a no brainer. Both institutions offer similar programs taught by industry experienced professional, but one is half the price and has no stigma - well cept that University taught employers will always choose a Computer Science major over you. Usually to their detriment, but I digress...

Either route will get you to where you want if you want it to so don't fret about wasting anything. Just pick the program that you think suits you better.