Should the Jays trade Halladay? - Page 2 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Saint Troy · 07-08-2009, 06:47 PM

It will suck but it sure it looks like it is happening this summer. I will puke if I ever see Halladay in a Red Sox or Yanks uniform.

bluejays · 07-08-2009, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

If that's the requirement I don't see Halliday getting traded then.

Not sure why a team would want to trade a younger version of Halliday for 1.5 years of the older guy, plus add more pieces to the deal. If the Jays could get Lincecum right now for Halliday it would be a steal let alone a younger version plus others.

Also not sure why a team would give up, let alone even have, 2 sure fire MVP players.

But perhaps that is your plan to make the price so high that they don't move him.

Simple. Pitching is at a premium. This may as well be fact, but Halladay is known as one of the hardest working players in the league, is constantly in great condition, focused, never gets injured, helps the bullpen out tremendously by pitching the full 9, isn't a controversy magnet, is a Cy Young candidate every year, prime of his career, constant 20 game winner, great teammate and can almost lift a team about to get there over the top. It's not a homer statement to say there is really no other player at all like him around. As much as I like a guy like Utley or Longoria, or whomever gets mentioned in any rumor (not that any of those guys were mentioned), pitching is what they have to get back. I don't know if it'd be possible, but if Halladay could be had for David Price, it'd be something to look at.

xolager · 07-08-2009, 07:45 PM

Why so quick to jettison the best athlete playing team sports in Canada?

Jesse834 · 07-08-2009, 09:02 PM

Trade Him Right Now

moon · 07-08-2009, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fleury

Simple. Pitching is at a premium. This may as well be fact, but Halladay is known as one of the hardest working players in the league, is constantly in great condition, focused, never gets injured, helps the bullpen out tremendously by pitching the full 9, isn't a controversy magnet, is a Cy Young candidate every year, prime of his career, constant 20 game winner, great teammate and can almost lift a team about to get there over the top. It's not a homer statement to say there is really no other player at all like him around. As much as I like a guy like Utley or Longoria, or whomever gets mentioned in any rumor (not that any of those guys were mentioned), pitching is what they have to get back. I don't know if it'd be possible, but if Halladay could be had for David Price, it'd be something to look at.

Pitching is at a premium I agree which is why I am confused as to why a team would trade a young guy like Lincecum who is basically Halliday except younger and cheaper. The player you get now gives you marginally better results and does so for a much shorter time.

Also not sure who has two sure fire MVP prospects, let alone is willing to give them up as well.

Halliday is one of the top players in the game for sure but is nowhere close to saying there is nobody else like him around.

Pagal4321 · 07-08-2009, 10:04 PM

There's no way a player like Lincecum comes back in a deal for Halladay, it's such backwards thinking.

It will be all prospects, either with little to no MLB experience, or a first/second year guys.

But teams will have to unload plenty of their prospects to get Halladay, every team knows that.

A sure fire, bonafied SS, a talented hitter and a pitcher.

Jason14h · 07-08-2009, 10:22 PM

Quote:

There's no way a player like Lincecum comes back in a deal for Halladay, it's such backwards thinking

Well obviously there only one Lincecum right now in the league! However, 3 or 4 years ago you could have got him as a spect for a Doc type pitcher, despite the fact he was a 5 star prospect

I wanna be like Miikka · 07-08-2009, 10:31 PM

I'm not a huge Jays fan but it pains me watching someone that talented play so many years on such a garbage team. I think he has put his time in and he deserves a shot in the playoffs.

moon · 07-08-2009, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Well obviously there only one Lincecum right now in the league! However, 3 or 4 years ago you could have got him as a spect for a Doc type pitcher, despite the fact he was a 5 star prospect

Does spect mean prospect? Is typing those 3 letters that tough?

A writer from Philly said that they would not give up their top pitching prospect for anyone so it really isn't that tough to think that the Giants wouldn't have given up a guy like Lincecum for Halliday when he was a prospect.

Teams are realizing that building from within is the best route to go and they aren't willing to give up their top guys nearly as often as they used to.

There may be a team or two that would be willing but for the most part teams aren't giving up pitching prospects even for a guy like Halliday.

carom · 07-08-2009, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

A writer from Philly said that they would not give up their top pitching prospect for anyone so it really isn't that tough to think that the Giants wouldn't have given up a guy like Lincecum for Halliday when he was a prospect.

As you stated, times have changed but i think i remember a trade rumour from a few years ago that Lincecum was going to be traded for Rios. Hindsight is a dog.

moon · 07-08-2009, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carom

As you stated, times have changed but i think i remember a trade rumour from a few years ago that Lincecum was going to be traded for Rios. Hindsight is a dog.

Except it is widely known that the Giants weren't ever going to trade Lincecum in that deal and he was actually being used as bait to get the Jays in the deal and then swap out Lincecum with Matt Cain instead.

When the Jays wouldn't make the deal without Lincecum it died.

Sylvanfan · 07-08-2009, 11:30 PM

I thought I read this past off season that the Jays wanted Lincecum but the Giants were thinking about maybe offering Matt Cain. Can't remember where though, but it sounded like Lincecum was never something they were willing to think about. Although...if it was Cain, that would have been pretty solid too.

Chances are in a Halladay deal you could get a really good hitting prospect easily enough, but it's probably going to be tough to wrangle up great pitching prospects.

carom · 07-09-2009, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Chances are in a Halladay deal you could get a really good hitting prospect easily enough, but it's probably going to be tough to wrangle up great pitching prospects.

I agree

bluejays · 07-09-2009, 06:01 AM

It all comes down to opinion, but I was watching TSN last night after the game and their "Insider" said if he were to get traded to the LAD, Kershaw would be the guy they'd start with in return. Sounds like a bonafide pitching prospect to me. I guess we'll agree to disagree, but IMO, there really isn't a single pitcher who is quite like Halladay overall. Lincecum really is the only one who may be like him, but nobody has his conditioning where he doesn't get injured, and plays 9 innings (essentially saving your bullpen 20% less work). That's huge.

Gozer · 07-09-2009, 09:44 AM

HALL - A - DAY people!

Ziggy Lidstrom · 07-09-2009, 04:06 PM

Word on the street is that the team who will trade for Halladay has to take VW as well...
courtesy of focks sports (name changed for infringement purposes, am I paranoid trout?).

HOw about that? IF that happened then I'm okay with it. But what do u receive in return then, anything?

Sylvanfan · 07-09-2009, 06:05 PM

I can't see anyone wanting to take on a 20 million dollar guy minimum in Halladay and an 18 million dollar albatross. That would be a 40 million dollar budget hit for like 5 more years, which in these times is a pretty sizable monetary commitment. The Jays might take back like a 12 million dollar guy if Wells is in the deal, but still, the number of teams who can afford a contract for Halladay is limited as is. Add another guy like Wells to the equation and it's even less.

Ziggy Lidstrom · 07-09-2009, 06:14 PM

Apparently LA dodge city is capable. They actually have a need in CF as they are not sold on kemp.

What about this trade:
Roy Halladay, Vernon Wells to LA

Juan Pierre, Clayton Kershaw, Kemp/Loney, 2 above average prospects, or one real good prospect to TOR

moon · 07-09-2009, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggy Lidstrom

Apparently LA dodge city is capable. They actually have a need in CF as they are not sold on kemp.

What about this trade:
Roy Halladay, Vernon Wells to LA

Juan Pierre, Clayton Kershaw, Kemp/Loney, 2 above average prospects, or one real good prospect to TOR

If they are taking back Wells no way do they give up more than they would have to just to get Halladay on his own.

They may have questions about Kemp but he is a much better player than Wells at this point and no way near the anchor that Wells is.

Ziggy Lidstrom · 07-09-2009, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

If they are taking back Wells no way do they give up more than they would have to just to get Halladay on his own.

They may have questions about Kemp but he is a much better player than Wells at this point and no way near the anchor that Wells is.

Let's face facts about wells. He's a two time allstar, three time gg winner and has had incredible seasons as a CF in the bigs. He was even being compared to a HOF CF in mr. mays, early as 2006 and was being mentioned as a HOF candidate himself. He hit 300 and 20 hr last year in a shortened effort. Not to forget, his contract is massive and that's why they are shopping him then.

This year is not without criticism for wells, but he still has a neutral trade value if you ask me. I feel that Juan Pierre would be a fine addition because he is being paid a lot to not play everyday and he is an "anchor" so to speak, so that almost cancels out wells.

And Kemp is not a "much" better player and has never hit more than 18 HR. He has a better avg and ops but wells isn't that far out of the discussion.