Iran Clerics Declare Election Invalid - Page 2 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

mykalberta · 07-06-2009, 12:05 PM

So what the Iranian National Guard is not part of the Army? WTF are they then?

octothorp · 07-06-2009, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mykalberta

So what the Iranian National Guard is not part of the Army? WTF are they then?

It's a military force that answers directly to the supreme leader, which might have been okay when it was just a small elite forces group, but during the Iran/Iraq war, it grew to be as large as the Iranian Army. It has it's own army, navy, air force, and I think it controls most or all of Iran's missiles. I think Captain Crunch had a post about the history of it in the other Iranian election thread (but I may have been wrong and read it somewhere else).

arsenal · 07-06-2009, 12:41 PM

Is this movement really like 1979? I am asking mainly because i was 2 then, and have no idea what it was like. But in the little i have heard and read, that changed the entire political system, bringing the AoE and the Supreme Leader, and doing away the Monarchy.

So what do you see as the end goal of the people power movement? The end of Supreme Leader, AoE, or just having the AoE replace Ali Khamenei with someone else?

CaptainCrunch · 07-06-2009, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by octothorp

It's a military force that answers directly to the supreme leader, which might have been okay when it was just a small elite forces group, but during the Iran/Iraq war, it grew to be as large as the Iranian Army. It has it's own army, navy, air force, and I think it controls most or all of Iran's missiles. I think Captain Crunch had a post about the history of it in the other Iranian election thread (but I may have been wrong and read it somewhere else).

thier republican guard is theoretically part of the military TOE, however it doesn't follow the same chain of command as the regular army, has its own equipment and its own training and they answer only to the supreme leader. They have no oversight in the same way as the military does, however they interestingly enough also act as a security and information gathering entity within the regular armed forces, some overtly as attached members and some covertly as recruits. They are there to look for signs of disloyalty. They do hold control of Iran's missiles and their chemical weapons stock.

I've read that there is a great deal of resentment towards the national guard because not only are they better paid and lavishly equipt compared to the regular army, but they're also not seen as professional soliders and they're seen as spies.

If the government was to ever fall, the first people lined up against the wall would be the guard.

CaptainCrunch · 07-06-2009, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arsenal

Is this movement really like 1979? I am asking mainly because i was 2 then, and have no idea what it was like. But in the little i have heard and read, that changed the entire political system, bringing the AoE and the Supreme Leader, and doing away the Monarchy.

So what do you see as the end goal of the people power movement? The end of Supreme Leader, AoE, or just having the AoE replace Ali Khamenei with someone else?

The revolution in 1979 was more covert and underground and while it seemed to come from nowhere it had been building for a long time. This one is more of a everyman for himself type of protest and while I'm not sure if it will grow into a full fledged revolution it does seem to be more loosely organized and its not a planned revolution at all. If a revolution happens its because one to many skulls is cracked during a large enough protest and they decide as a group to literally storm the castle.

EDBTZ12 · 07-06-2009, 01:01 PM

Ahmedinijad or however u spell it will just simply fire or kill the clerics so nothing to be excited about.

octothorp · 07-06-2009, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDBTZ12

Ahmedinijad or however u spell it will just simply fire or kill the clerics so nothing to be excited about.

Uh, no. These are holy leaders, not politicians. They can't be fired. And killing them would be political suicide for Ahmadinejad and Khamenei; it would be like an Italian leader having the pope and most of his high-ranking bishops offed.

EDBTZ12 · 07-06-2009, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by octothorp

Uh, no. These are holy leaders, not politicians. They can't be fired. And killing them would be political suicide for Ahmadinejad and Khamenei; it would be like an Italian leader having the pope and most of his high-ranking bishops offed.

They are deeply involved in politics but ahmedinijad has the last word and if he wants them killed he wouldnt publicly announce that he had anything to so with their killing. Sorta like what happened in Lebanon with Harriri being killed.

peter12 · 07-06-2009, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDBTZ12

They are deeply involved in politics but ahmedinijad has the last word and if he wants them killed he wouldnt publicly announce that he had anything to so with their killing. Sorta like what happened in Lebanon with Harriri being killed.

No, the Supreme Leader has the last word. Besides, killing off the clerics is tantamount to political suicide. You'll see generalized riots turn into an "out for blood" insurgency pretty quickly.

redforever · 10-10-2009, 03:09 PM

Three of the protestors have been sentenced to death.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33254083/ns/world_news

HPLovecraft · 10-10-2009, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDBTZ12

They are deeply involved in politics but ahmedinijad has the last word and if he wants them killed he wouldnt publicly announce that he had anything to so with their killing. Sorta like what happened in Lebanon with Harriri being killed.

That would be a great way to start an actual revolution. The people wouldn't stand for it. Imagine, like octothorp said, the Italian government offed the Pope and his bishops... There would huge outcry, not just in Italy, but in the general Christian community. Not just political suicide, but likely ACTUAL suicide considering the volatility of the region.

Azure · 10-10-2009, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter12

No, the Supreme Leader has the last word. Besides, killing off the clerics is tantamount to political suicide. You'll see generalized riots turn into an "out for blood" insurgency pretty quickly.

This is what I thought too?

Octothorp can you explain this?

T@T · 10-10-2009, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redforever

Three of the protestors have been sentenced to death.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33254083/ns/world_news

Sic!!

T@T · 10-11-2009, 03:45 AM

Missed this:

Quote:

the 37-year-old was convicted of "enmity against God" through membership in a monarchist group.

Unbelievable!! they somehow spin a protest over a fixed election as an act against "GOD" and now will hang them in a courtyard.

I would love to gather all these religious freaks in one place, drop a nuke on them and 5 years later write my name with piss on the dust.

Itse · 10-11-2009, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T@T

I would love to gather all these religious freaks in one place, drop a nuke on them and 5 years later write my name with piss on the dust.

I think religion is pretty obviously just something used to silence and execute dissidents in this case.

HPLovecraft · 10-11-2009, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T@T

Missed this:

Unbelievable!! they somehow spin a protest over a fixed election as an act against "GOD" and now will hang them in a courtyard.

I would love to gather all these religious freaks in one place, drop a nuke on them and 5 years later write my name with piss on the dust.

You'd likely be nuking that same guy that is getting sentenced, then, because it's not as if he's some beacon of athiest truth fighting against his oppressive religious overlords.