Second hand smoke from outside apartment

[Addick]

Originally Posted by troutman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuisance

Under the common law, persons in possession of real property (either land owners or tenants) are entitled to the quiet enjoyment of their lands. If a neighbour interferes with that quiet enjoyment, either by creating smells, sounds, pollution or any other hazard that extends past the boundaries of the property, the affected party may make a claim in nuisance.

Can it not be argued that the non-smoking neighbour is brining in air from outside the boundaries of their property and the smoking-neighbour is not having a direct effect on the air inside the boundaries of the non-smoking neighbours property? It would appear that the non-smoking party is taking a risk by bringing in foreign air, especially in larger quantities than would the case with the natural flow of air.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Addick

Can it not be argued that the non-smoking neighbour is brining in air from outside the boundaries of their property and the smoking-neighbour is not having a direct effect on the air inside the boundaries of the non-smoking neighbours property? It would appear that the non-smoking party is taking a risk by bringing in foreign air, especially in larger quantities than would the case with the natural flow of air.

A good defence might be - "close your window"

[EVERLAST]

throw a burning bag of _______down onto their balcony.....wait for reaction

[Titan]

Originally Posted by Addick

Can it not be argued that the non-smoking neighbour is brining in air from outside the boundaries of their property and the smoking-neighbour is not having a direct effect on the air inside the boundaries of the non-smoking neighbours property? It would appear that the non-smoking party is taking a risk by bringing in foreign air, especially in larger quantities than would the case with the natural flow of air.

No. The rights of your fist stop at the end of my nose.

For example the plant polluting the river upstream from your property or the factory downwind from you. Not your fault. You have a right to something as basic as clean air.

[metallicat]

This annoys the hell out of me as well. I hate smokers and smoking in general. I live on the 4th floor, and I am constantly getting the smell of smoke into my condo from the neighbors below and to the sides. I freaking hate living in an apartment complex.

Then I've got the guys I work with who smoke. We're standing around chatting or whatever, they light up a smoke, I walk away, and they follow me. F off already.

[troutman]

You know when you go into an apartment building and you smell the other people's cooking on each floor and you go "What are they cookin'?"

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Titan

No. The rights of your fist stop at the end of my nose.

For example the plant polluting the river upstream from your property or the factory downwind from you. Not your fault. You have a right to something as basic as clean air.

What you've said is true, but both of those conditions are the result of natural occurrences. Here you have a plaintiff who has introduced a foreign instrument that has caused the smoke to become an issue. I know this isn't negligence, but if you think of it through the but for test the smoke isn't an issue but for the actions of using the fan to suck in air from outside.

I'm not sure what the result would be, but there is certainly an argument that the use of the fan to draw air in has created a nuisance where there would not have otherwise been one.

[flip]

Other than politely asking him to smoke elsewhere, or closing your window I don't see a lot of options for you.

Personally I hate little kids making noise while I'm hungover and trying to sleep. I hate people who cut their grass earlier than noon. Sometimes I even hate people with fire pits, unless of course it is me that has the pit.

In the end though it is give and take. I don't complain about my neighbors stupid annoying little kids, and trust me there are a lot of them in this neighborhood, and they don't complain if me and my friends are out on the deck late, or if I want to smoke a J on my deck when I get home from a stressful day at school or work.

It is all about give and take. If you think his smoke smells bad, you never know he might think that that crap you made for dinner is ruining his apartment so he's going out for a smoke and some fresh air.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Jawbone Hill

My only real concern is the health affect of breathing in their second hand smoke every night, mainly due to the fact that my wife and I will probably be starting a family within the next couple of years.

If this is your only real concern, I suggest you stop watching so much tv and start being more discerning about the information you take in.

Think about it this way. How dilluted is the smoke by the time it reaches your apartment? The answer, very. Now what is worse the hundreds of thousands of people who drive their cars or the person burning part of a tobacco leaf.

In terms of health, you really don't have much to worry about from second hand smoke at that kind of distance with the smoke travelling outside first. The only cases involving health effects from second hand smoke were from people constantly exposed.

The majority of studies in these areas have focussed on spouses/children of smokers and usually find a 20-30% increase in risk of cancer etc at most.. Even those are debatable since smokers tend to be unhealthy people and are thus more likely to live with other unhealthy people. There are several papers that go either way, but the end result is that the amount of second hand smoke you have to be exposed to is massive to even have a small increase in your odds of cancer.

All that being said... second hand smoke is annoying, so it's definitely something you should talk to your neighbors about. This is probably a situation where you will catch more flies with honey than vineger though. Unless there is a by-law prohibiting the smoking, don't expect your neighbours to be overly receptive to a bad attitude.

Edit: Flip has an excellent point. In the modern world where people live so closely together, you have to put up with other people annoying you. It still doesn't hurt to talk to them.

[Ice]

Buying a house doesn't always solve the problem. The house next door to mine is a rental property. We had some smokers move in but they didn't smoke in the house because they presented themselves as non-smokers to the landlord. Since my house is set back further from the street than theirs, everytime they went on their patio to smoke it came in my living room window, front door (which is always open in the summer) and the upstairs bedroom windows. It was horrible, they were chain smokers and took turns going outside to smoke, and walked right up to our fence to smoke. It was constant smoke every 15 minutes until after midnight. We decided to do something about it.

We went to Home Depot, got two of the most powerful fans we could find. Put one on the balcony over our front door facing their smoking spot in the backyard. We put the other on the fence to our backyard facing away from our living room window. When those fans were on full power, they forced the smoke to blow the opposite direction of my house and into common area where there were no homes or windows getting smoked. I think is the only answer. Generalization alert....Smokers can be pretty militant about their right to smoke, so I never actually asked the neighbors if they could smoke on the other side of their yard. They weren't very friendly so they didn't seem approachable. They literally walked up to our fence and blew the smoke over so it wouldn't get blown back in their house. It was really irritating.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by blankall

If this is your only real concern, I suggest you stop watching so much tv and start being more discerning about the information you take in.

Think about it this way. How dilluted is the smoke by the time it reaches your apartment? The answer, very. Now what is worse the hundreds of thousands of people who drive their cars or the person burning part of a tobacco leaf.

In terms of health, you really don't have much to worry about from second hand smoke at that kind of distance with the smoke travelling outside first. The only cases involving health effects from second hand smoke were from people constantly exposed.

The majority of studies in these areas have focussed on spouses/children of smokers and usually find a 20-30% increase in risk of cancer etc at most.. Even those are debatable since smokers tend to be unhealthy people and are thus more likely to live with other unhealthy people. There are several papers that go either way, but the end result is that the amount of second hand smoke you have to be exposed to is massive to even have a small increase in your odds of cancer.

All that being said... second hand smoke is annoying, so it's definitely something you should talk to your neighbors about. This is probably a situation where you will catch more flies with honey than vineger though. Unless there is a by-law prohibiting the smoking, don't expect your neighbours to be overly receptive to a bad attitude.

Edit: Flip has an excellent point. In the modern world where people live so closely together, you have to put up with other people annoying you. It still doesn't hurt to talk to them.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but isn't there evidence that exposure to second hand smoke increases the chances of respiratory illness even over the short term?

I know from personal experience that when I go to a bar that allows smoking (not in Calgary obviously) I come out feeling like my chest and sinuses are more congested than usual, and my friends with asthma are pretty significantly affected.

[Dion]

Get a bucket and fill it with cow crap and leave it on your balcony. When your neighbours complain of the smell tell them you'll get rid of the crap if they stop smoking on the balcony. Problem solved

[Finny61]

1) Buy a house
2) If #1 doesn't work financially then buy a condo
3) If #2 doesn't work financially then call troutman (if he's a lawyer), sue them, and then revert to #1.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by valo403

Maybe I'm mistaken, but isn't there evidence that exposure to second hand smoke increases the chances of respiratory illness even over the short term?

I know from personal experience that when I go to a bar that allows smoking (not in Calgary obviously) I come out feeling like my chest and sinuses are more congested than usual, and my friends with asthma are pretty significantly affected.

I think a lot of the illness you are feeling is probably psychosomatic, and people with asthma most certainly do get attacks when they work themselves up about something or show anxiety towards something. Keep in mind that smoking used to be legal in classrooms, on planes, in restaurants, and people weren't breaking out into asthma attacks everywhere.

I will concede that certain bars, however, could have an affect on you. These kind of bars are the places with poor ventilation where you have dozens of people smoking many cigarettes. Totally different situation from someone smoking 1 cigarette 20 feet away from your window and a very small portion of the smoke blowing in. The differences in concentration are huge.

If your worried about those kind of concentrations you had better never be near a campfire, running cars, cooking of any kind, etc... all of these things involve releasing compounds that could potentially harm you and in a much greater concentrations than the person smoking 20 feet away in the open air.

[DuffMan]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...cigarette.html

[Ice]

My problem with it isn't health related. I'm pretty sure the amount of smoke getting in my house isn't extremely hazardous. I just don't think my house should smell like smoke when nobody here smokes. It smells terrible and I don't want my house to stink. Even the smoking neighbors didn't want THEIR house to stink, why should they stink up MY house?

Its the same problem I have with my neighbor's dog pooping in my front yard. For years I didn't have a dog, yet I had to clean up dog poop.

Now if people want to live in smokey, poopy homes, that's fine by me. Just don't force me to deal with the fallout of your bad habits.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by blankall

I think a lot of the illness you are feeling is probably psychosomatic, and people with asthma most certainly do get attacks when they work themselves up about something or show anxiety towards something. Keep in mind that smoking used to be legal in classrooms, on planes, in restaurants, and people weren't breaking out into asthma attacks everywhere.

Who are you to be telling others it's psychosomatic?

Are you an expert in this field?

A god friend of mine has asthma. If he's in a room where there is too much smoke he literally can't breathe. He has to step ouside and use his puffer. And no, it's not about anxiety or working themselves up.

[Jawbone Hill]

Originally Posted by troutman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuisance

Under the common law, persons in possession of real property (either land owners or tenants) are entitled to the quiet enjoyment of their lands. If a neighbour interferes with that quiet enjoyment, either by creating smells, sounds, pollution or any other hazard that extends past the boundaries of the property, the affected party may make a claim in nuisance.

I appreciate the info, but I don't think I want to pursue legal means to get them to stop. I empathize with their position, and I don't want to be 'one of those people' that tries to ban smoking in every place where I might potentially be affected. I'm just trying to brainstorm some ideas to keep my place cool while keeping the cigarette smoke out. I had been toying with the idea of using some sort of fan/filter combo to remove the pollutants from the air before the enter my condo... has anyone ever tried this? I've seen a few DIY projects, but other than that I can't find much.

[Dion]

Buy yourself a large fan and place it on your balcony. Have the fan blow away the smoke filled air away from your place.

[metallicat]

LOL at anyone who denies asthma symptoms. I have had many experiences where I haven't had my inhaler for lengths of time for whatever reason, and it is a terrible experience.