Board to decide bus beheader's fate

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

I'm more trying to gauge where people's opinions lie on; 'should someone with mental illness who committed a crime be treated the same as someone who is mentally fit who committed the same crime'. The answer in this thread appears to be yes.

What other countries ignore mental health in criminal proceedings?

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

What other countries ignore mental health in criminal proceedings?

Iran? North Korea?

I'm good at this game!

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by flameswin

The mental illness card? Someone on trial can't just play the mental illness card, in the same way that a black person might play the racist card. The person actually has to be found to have a mental illness, at which point they aren't really playing a card, so much as they actually have a mental illness.

Haha.....I am talking about how you hear alot in the media about a certain suspect "pleading insanity" when really they just snapped.................insanity is considered a mental illness no?

Don't go race on me here...........

[HPLovecraft]

This reminds me of that Quincy episode about pleading insanity. Quincy was against people being able to claim being mentally ill after doing a crime.

Just saying. I like Quincy.

[Peanut]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Haha.....I am talking about how you hear alot in the media about a certain suspect "pleading insanity" when really they just snapped.................insanity is considered a mental illness no?

Don't go race on me here...........

But what's the difference between being insane and "just snapping"? I like to think that no matter how angry or stressed or whatever other crap life throws at me, that cutting someone's head off during my snap-episode is definitely NOT going to be the reaction.

And by all accounts nothing really instigated this guy's attack. He just was sitting in his seat and then got up and committed the murder out of nowhere.

Maybe when an already insane person snaps the consequences are just worse? I don't really know. Just not sure if there's a difference between "snapping" and being insane.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I think a lot of us get our ideas on what goes on in the courtroom from television dramas and motion pictures.

But I do think this guy should stay behind locked doors for good. Is it possible to be cured of an illness that makes a person do something like this? I don't know, but I kinda doubt it and would rather not find out. Head-cutting-off is a pretty serious symptom of your disease.

The guy was diagnosed with schizophrenia. It's quite possible his illness can be managed with the right dosage of medication. Now, the problem comes with making sure he takes his meds on a daily basis. They can do that if he's in a mental hospital, but if he was ever to be released, there's a good chance he might go off his meds and comitt another gruesome act.

For the above reason i would hope they keep him segregated from society for the rest of his life.

[evilcougar]

Off with his head. Just sayin...

[CaptainCrunch]

I'm all for the privacy thing, but I understand that one of the options for the board is a conditional release.

This guy obviously has a dangerous mental condition, and I think that the public has a right to know if a dangerous schizo is released into the community.

[Dion]

Dr. Stanley Yaren, while testifying before a provincial review board, quickly put aside any concerns that Vincent Li could be immediately released back into the community.

Yaren said Monday that Li has not had any "active psychotic symptoms" for the past 12 weeks. He is also willingly taking his medication and has even shown some remorse for his crime.

However, Yaren warned that Li hasn't been studied yet "outside of an extremely controlled and regimented environment."

He told board members Li should remain under the "highest level of security possible" because he remains a risk for violent behaviour.

Yaren said the chance of a relapse will never disappear, regardless of treatment.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/Health/...430/story.html

[Hilch]

http://www.calgaryherald.com/health/...591/story.html

A man who beheaded and cannibalized a fellow passenger on a Greyhound bus in Manitoba has won his bid to leave the grounds of the mental hospital where he is being kept.

[undercoverbrother]

Too bad a 9 mill pill couldn't decide his fate.

This really is nuts that this fella is getting closer to freedom.

[krynski]

Okay, for those of you who don't know much about mental illness, do some homework. Familiaize yourself with schizophrenics. Get educated before your lack of data crowds your judgement. Mental illness is a serious matter. I'm not a sufferer, but I know some. It's a curse. Now, if you were this fella, likely strong psychotic and depression, you would feel like #### that you killed and ate someone. Illnesses severely cloud judgement. He seriously believed that that person was a threat. Do your homework for gods sake. He's probably a nice man who experienced a severe psychotic episode.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by krynski

Okay, for those of you who don't know much about mental illness, do some homework. Familiaize yourself with schizophrenics. Get educated before your lack of data crowds your judgement. Mental illness is a serious matter. I'm not a sufferer, but I know some. It's a curse. Now, if you were this fella, likely strong psychotic and depression, you would feel like #### that you killed and ate someone. Illnesses severely cloud judgement. He seriously believed that that person was a threat. Do your homework for gods sake. He's probably a nice man who experienced a severe psychotic episode.

Yeah he sounds like a real gentleman. Tell that to the family of the man he BUTCHERED.

[krynski]

Originally Posted by Peanut

But what's the difference between being insane and "just snapping"? I like to think that no matter how angry or stressed or whatever other crap life throws at me, that cutting someone's head off during my snap-episode is definitely NOT going to be the reaction.

And by all accounts nothing really instigated this guy's attack. He just was sitting in his seat and then got up and committed the murder out of nowhere.

Maybe when an already insane person snaps the consequences are just worse? I don't really know. Just not sure if there's a difference between "snapping" and being insane.

There is. He had a long-standing documented history of mental illness. Insane is not a psychological or medical condition. It is a law term. He was experiencing an intensive psychotic episode.

[Russic]

I think Dion has the most rational point here. He has a condition that has been diagnosed and properly treated, but the only way it stays that way is with proper medication. If this was a shot in the arm it would be different, but there is a daily regiment that must be followed. Unless you can administer that with 100% certainty he shouldn't be released on his own.

It sounds like what he's getting is just a very minor day pass. While it seems like this is a slippery slope to him living on his own, it appears as though the doctors realize he likely can't be left to his own devices at any point.

I'm sure I'll take heat for the opinion (and I'll probably just steer clear of the discussion because I'm a huge pansy), but I don't hate the idea of him getting escorted leave. What he did wasn't done out of selfishness or greed, it was done out of sickness. That doesn't make it right, but it does change how I feel he should be treated. It's a tough situation because he CAN be essentially "fixed", whereas somebody like a pedophile (in my opinion) cannot. It isn't focus groups and talking about your feelings, it's brain chemistry and it can be altered. As mentioned above, I don't think he should be given anything beyond escorted leave for short intervals just because keeping him medicated is so essential.

[krynski]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Yeah he sounds like a real gentleman. Tell that to the family of the man he BUTCHERED.

I generally find you comedic and a pleasure to view your posts. not backing up claims with data is something we all do. Frankly, you can't un butcher the guy. He didn't take his meds or his doctor screwed up. It's a curse, not something one would do consciously.

[CaptainCrunch]

My main worry is that he will eventually be released into the public permanently and he has a disease which requires a strict adherance to medication.

Unless there's a mechanism for that to be supervised he becomes a danger to himself and society in general.

I don't think he's evil or malicious, he's very very sick, and this becomes a matter of pervention over a cure.

[mykalberta]

I feel bad for people with mental illnesses but imo that shouldnt give people a free pass on the justice system.

He cut a mans head off. I dont care what he is suffering from, HE CUT A MANS HEAD OFF.

[Flashpoint]

There can be only one.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

I'm sure no one in this thread suggested he get off 'scott free'.

I'm more trying to gauge where people's opinions lie on; 'should someone with mental illness who committed a crime be treated the same as someone who is mentally fit who committed the same crime'.

The answer in this thread appears to be yes.

I say no. That does not mean that I agree with an early release as in this situation, but I don't think you can treat people who committed crimes while mentally insane the same way as those who were of sane mind when they committed their crime.

First off, I do believe that if someone with mental illness has committed a crime, they should be afforded the same justice as any other person who committed a crime. By that I mean, they should have proper legal representation, the right to a fair trial, whatever is needed.

Second, if they are found not guilty by reason of insanity, I don't think they should be put in the same facility as those found guilty who were of sane mind when they committed their crime. Not only will the mentally insane probably not get treatment while incarcerated in a regular prison, they could also add to the stress factor already present in those prisons, contributing to situations that could increase the likelihood of riots and the like happening.

Third, if they are found not guilty by reason of insanity, then I think they should be put in facilities that address that situation.

For very severe situations like this one, I don't think the person should ever be out in the public again without some kind of supervision. Yes, with meds that person can certainly be what we call "normal" but there are no assurances that would remain the case without supervision. The person in question here has schizophrenia, a condition where in many cases the individual stops taking their meds when they feel better, because they think they no longer need them.

In situations where the public's safety was not a concern in the first place and won't be at a later point in time, and where treatment has shown that it is not likely the situation will repeat itself, then I have no problem with that person being released at a later date in time.