The Wrestler

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

Is Mickey's character loosely based on anyone real in the wrestling world?

Ric Flair? Mick Foley?

Its more of an amalgamation of a lot of guys that were big and ended up working the independents.

I thought of guys like Terry Gordy, Davey Boy Smith people that had it and threw their whole lives away.

[albertGQ]

Terry Funk is probably the best example then

[CaptainCrunch]

One thing about Terry Funk though, he never could stop wrestling, and his health is a mess because of it. But he's managed to raise an amazing family and keep them close.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

Is Mickey's character loosely based on anyone real in the wrestling world?

Ric Flair? Mick Foley?

While I have yet to see the movie, there's no way those guys would be anything close to his character.

The guy I've heard rumoured is Greg Valentine.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

While I have yet to see the movie, there's no way those guys would be anything close to his character.

The guy I've heard rumoured is Greg Valentine.

Struck me as more Jake the Snake Roberts

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

While I have yet to see the movie, there's no way those guys would be anything close to his character.

The guy I've heard rumoured is Greg Valentine.

I was amazed to find out that the poor guy was still wrestling.

Lex Luger would be another one. Probably the closest would be Scott Hall.

Sherri Martel died alone of a drug overdose in busted down old trailer.

[Flamesguy_SJ]

I think the daughter angle in the movie was definitely inspired by Jake the Snake. It's pretty well-known the tension between he and the rest of his family. Like others have said, it really seems that "The Ram" character is based on a lot of different parts of different wrestlers.

I'm sure if Shawn hadn't found God, his story would look eerily similar to this movie.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Flamesguy_SJ

I think the daughter angle in the movie was definitely inspired by Jake the Snake. It's pretty well-known the tension between he and the rest of his family. Like others have said, it really seems that "The Ram" character is based on a lot of different parts of different wrestlers.

I'm sure if Shawn hadn't found God, his story would look eerily similar to this movie.

Shawn? Micheals you mean? I dont watch wrestling anymore..actually can't stand it. But I saw a few seconds a couple weeks ago and was thinking he looks kind of messed up these days.

Best wrestling movie ever is still Bret Hart: Wrestling with Shadows. That documentary was great.

[SteveToms]

Shawn is just old, tired and dealing with injuries, otherwise he isn't not a bad guy anymore

[howard_the_duck]

Tough to argue Sean Penn's performance, but I thought Rourke was robbed. Couldn't have done a better job IMO.

[Daradon]

Rourke did do an awesome job, but I don't think it was the hardest role to play.

Troubled athlete deciding between fixing his family life or chasing after glory he'll never see again...

That's been done 100 times.

Tomei's character was too.

Stripper mom with a good heart who won't let anyone into her life...

These are stock characters really. Cliched story with the tearjerker must have moments.

The acting is the only reason this was a good movie. The acting by pretty much everyone was very good.

(and yeah I DO know a bit about a wrestlers life and struggle and that actually did make it more interesting for me, so that part wasn't lost on me)

[jammies]

I thought *I* was cynical... just watched this movie tonight, I thought it was brilliant. I think the characters were deliberately cliche and then reworked, as was the story - it wasn't at all about chasing glory, as what glory was there?

--spoilers--

None of the wrestling scenes glamourize the sport, instead we see Ram cutting himself, shooting himself up with steroids, taking painkillers, puking, getting staples put into his body, landing on barbed wire - all for a few hundred bucks. The pivotal scene is in the deli where he deliberately injures himself on the slicer, because paradoxically that's only time he stops hurting - when he feels that physical pain - a pain that blots out the far more intense emotional hurt of being alone.

It's not at all a story about trying to recapture glory, it's a story about being seduced by death. That's why, in another important scene, his daughter doesn't remember the skeleton and the haunted house on the pier, and they dance in the ruins - it's not really an affecting scene of father/daughter reconciliation, it's a foretelling of his death and how he will not be remembered. That's also why he is so upset about the nametag he is given and why he goes into a rage when the customer recognizes him in the deli; he realizes then he has a choice of deaths, as Randy in the ring or as Robin living in a trailer with a dead-end job.

He also ends up rejecting Cassidy (Tomei) for that same reason of wanting death more than life. He knows that the choice of turning away from the ring and going with her is a false hope, for he realizes that all he has to give her is his pain, which will eventually drive her away; he chooses instead to give it to the people who delight in it as entertainment. Further, he embraces that love for pain and death in his final speech, which is nothing other than offering himself up for willing sacrifice, and that why he smiles as he balances on the top rope, while his heart is giving out, and then launches himself into the air at the very end of the movie.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Rourke did do an awesome job, but I don't think it was the hardest role to play.

Troubled athlete deciding between fixing his family life or chasing after glory he'll never see again...

That's been done 100 times.

Tomei's character was too.

Stripper mom with a good heart who won't let anyone into her life...

These are stock characters really. Cliched story with the tearjerker must have moments.

The acting is the only reason this was a good movie. The acting by pretty much everyone was very good.

(and yeah I DO know a bit about a wrestlers life and struggle and that actually did make it more interesting for me, so that part wasn't lost on me)

I pretty much disagree with all of this.

What's an example of a recent drama that was so much better than The Wrestler? I put it in the company of Hotel Rwanda, Brokeback Mountain, and Little Miss Sunshine. Brilliant.

Maybe X-Men: Origins is less cliche?

[Flamesguy_SJ]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Shawn? Micheals you mean? I dont watch wrestling anymore..actually can't stand it. But I saw a few seconds a couple weeks ago and was thinking he looks kind of messed up these days.

Best wrestling movie ever is still Bret Hart: Wrestling with Shadows. That documentary was great.

Yeah, Shawn Michaels. It's pretty well-known that he was in bad shape for a long time towards the end of his first run with WWF (remember when he "lost his smile"?), and just after. He was actually supposed to come back way earlier than he did to help Triple H in an angle, but he got to RAW and was in such terrible shape (all drugged up) that they sent him home, and Trips didn't talk to him for a few years. Granted, all that comes from his own autobiography, so it should probably be taken with a grain of salt.

And I know there are a lot of Bret Hart marks here, being that he's from Calgary, but I really can't take anything he says or does seriously anymore. His autobiography was dreadful in that all it was, was him telling the world how amazing he was and how he never did anything wrong.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

I pretty much disagree with all of this.

What's an example of a recent drama that was so much better than The Wrestler? I put it in the company of Hotel Rwanda, Brokeback Mountain, and Little Miss Sunshine. Brilliant.

Maybe X-Men: Origins is less cliche?

Uhhhh, well thanks for assuming that because I didn't like it (or didn't think it was awesome, cause I did enjoy it) I would automatically like X-Men and not all those other great movies you mentioned.

I just wouldn't put it in the same category as those (Hotel Rwanda etc.) And I liked those other ones for sure.

This one just didn't do a whole lot for me. Like I said, better than average, but nothing to write home about. 3 to 3.5 stars out of 5.

In response to the comment about chasing past glory the other poster made, yeah I get what you are saying, I didn't completely articulate my idea. He knew it would never be like that again, wasn't trying to completely 'recapture' it per se. But he was finidng out that it was the fans that drove his passion, whether it was 50 or 50,000, so I guess that's all I meant in 'recapturing' his glory days.

Course it comes with all the questions like, maybe he put so much emphasis on his fans becase he screwed up his family life, etc. And yeah I get all that.

I just felt it was a story I had seen many times before. And characters I had seen many times before. Perhaps it was purposefully cliche, in which case fine, that's a good tool to tell a story sometimes. I just wasn't blown away by it. There was nothing new in it for me, I didn't feel like I learned anything at the end or had my thinking challenged. I usually reserve the top spots for movies in my mind for ones that do that to me.

[cKy]

Originally Posted by Flamesguy_SJ

Yeah, Shawn Michaels. It's pretty well-known that he was in bad shape for a long time towards the end of his first run with WWF (remember when he "lost his smile"?), and just after. He was actually supposed to come back way earlier than he did to help Triple H in an angle, but he got to RAW and was in such terrible shape (all drugged up) that they sent him home, and Trips didn't talk to him for a few years. Granted, all that comes from his own autobiography, so it should probably be taken with a grain of salt.

And I know there are a lot of Bret Hart marks here, being that he's from Calgary, but I really can't take anything he says or does seriously anymore. His autobiography was dreadful in that all it was, was him telling the world how amazing he was and how he never did anything wrong.

I highly disagree with Bret's book plugging himself as a holy then thou person. He admits fully about taking drugs and cheating with on his wife numerous times.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Flamesguy_SJ

Yeah, Shawn Michaels. It's pretty well-known that he was in bad shape for a long time towards the end of his first run with WWF (remember when he "lost his smile"?), and just after. He was actually supposed to come back way earlier than he did to help Triple H in an angle, but he got to RAW and was in such terrible shape (all drugged up) that they sent him home, and Trips didn't talk to him for a few years. Granted, all that comes from his own autobiography, so it should probably be taken with a grain of salt.

And I know there are a lot of Bret Hart marks here, being that he's from Calgary, but I really can't take anything he says or does seriously anymore. His autobiography was dreadful in that all it was, was him telling the world how amazing he was and how he never did anything wrong.

Comparing Harts book to Michaels is like comparing Tolstoy to John Grisham. Bret Hart's autobiography was amazing and completely honest. Michael's book was full of half truths and ego.

Michael's is just someone who I can't really respect as a wrestler and his earlier career actions make me really doubt that he's a better person now.

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by Daradon

The acting is the only reason this was a good movie. The acting by pretty much everyone was very good.

I would mostly agree with this. Watched it last night and really enjoyed it but it, to me, is an avearage movie without the incredible performance by Rourke. Arnofsky is a weird dude who can make some disturbing movies but he tends to get some amazing performances from his actors. He did it here again with The Wrestler.

[Flamesguy_SJ]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Comparing Harts book to Michaels is like comparing Tolstoy to John Grisham. Bret Hart's autobiography was amazing and completely honest. Michael's book was full of half truths and ego.

Michael's is just someone who I can't really respect as a wrestler and his earlier career actions make me really doubt that he's a better person now.

Oh, I wasn't trying to compare the two. I just think that autobiographies, especially wrestling ones (hello Hulk Hogan!) should always be taken with maybe a few grains of salt.

I agree that Hart's autobiography was a great and compelling read, as he was one of my favourite's growing up. But I dunno, there was just something about the way he came off to me that doesn't sit well. If you read it and felt he was being completely truthful, more power to you

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Uhhhh, well thanks for assuming that because I didn't like it (or didn't think it was awesome, cause I did enjoy it) I would automatically like X-Men and not all those other great movies you mentioned.

Meh... you don't have to be insulted... I liked X-Men: Origins.

I just wouldn't put it in the same category as those (Hotel Rwanda etc.) And I liked those other ones for sure.

This one just didn't do a whole lot for me. Like I said, better than average, but nothing to write home about. 3 to 3.5 stars out of 5.

I guess this is the part I don't quite get... I think this movie definitely belongs with those other three. Do you have an example of a 'similar' movie that's better? If The Wrestler is so cliche, it should be pretty easy.

I just felt it was a story I had seen many times before. And characters I had seen many times before. Perhaps it was purposefully cliche, in which case fine, that's a good tool to tell a story sometimes. I just wasn't blown away by it. There was nothing new in it for me, I didn't feel like I learned anything at the end or had my thinking challenged. I usually reserve the top spots for movies in my mind for ones that do that to me.

Example? "Cliche" is a super-easy term to throw around and not back up. It's cliche to use the word 'cliche' when describing a movie.

Obviously we all have our own opinions though. It'll definitely get categorized as one of the better dramas of the decade in my mind, along with the previously mentioned (Little Miss Sunshine, Hotel Rwanda, Brokeback Mountain).