Worthless Human leaves 21 month old son in Car for 6 hours while he gambles

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Probably old people. My grandfather goes every thursday on a seniors bus that takes them to the Casino for a few hours.

I'm sure it is something like that, but it just seems funny to me that people would go to a casino on Monday morning.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by KTrain

This case seems to be pretty cut and dry about what the situation. Especially, since I heard that he might have actually been checking up on the kid periodically.

However, I read this article a few weeks ago and now when I hear about a child being left in a car I make sure I get as much info as possible before passing judgment on the parents.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...022701549.html

The defendant was an immense man, well over 300 pounds, but in the gravity of his sorrow and shame he seemed larger still. He hunched forward in the sturdy wooden armchair that barely contained him, sobbing softly into tissue after tissue, a leg bouncing nervously under the table. In the first pew of spectators sat his wife, looking stricken, absently twisting her wedding band. The room was a sepulcher. Witnesses spoke softly of events so painful that many lost their composure. When a hospital emergency room nurse described how the defendant had behaved after the police first brought him in, she wept. He was virtually catatonic, she remembered, his eyes shut tight, rocking back and forth, locked away in some unfathomable private torment. He would not speak at all for the longest time, not until the nurse sank down beside him and held his hand. It was only then that the patient began to open up, and what he said was that he didn't want any sedation, that he didn't deserve a respite from pain, that he wanted to feel it all, and then to die.

The charge in the courtroom was manslaughter, brought by the Commonwealth of Virginia. No significant facts were in dispute. Miles Harrison, 49, was an amiable person, a diligent businessman and a doting, conscientious father until the day last summer -- beset by problems at work, making call after call on his cellphone -- he forgot to drop his son, Chase, at day care. The toddler slowly sweltered to death, strapped into a car seat for nearly nine hours in an office parking lot in Herndon in the blistering heat of July.

It was an inexplicable, inexcusable mistake, but was it a crime? That was the question for a judge to decide.

I haven't read the article..but I don't understand what the point is here? This was still a crime, plain and simple...that part in bold makes it even worse...neglect....sorry child>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>anything else. something people just don't get.

[KTrain]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

I haven't read the article..but I don't understand what the point is here? This was still a crime, plain and simple...that part in bold makes it even worse...neglect....sorry child>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>anything else. something people just don't get.

The article is a long one. The point is intent and perception. Whenever we hear these stories we instantly assume the parents are the worst people in the world and should be sentenced to death. More often than not (and not the case in the OP) they are just regular parents who made the worst mistake of their lives. The guy in this story forgot his child was in the car to be dropped off at daycare. The guy went to work instead and left his child in the car all day. From what I read, he was a great dad who made one terrible, stupid mistake.

Is it a crime? Yup, it is. People make mistakes and break the law. Their intent might not have been to do so but they did and have to face the consequences.

I only posted this story because it helped me to see that sometimes the situation isn't as clear cut as "he/she is a terrible person".

[ratech]

Originally Posted by KTrain

The article is a long one. The point is intent and perception. Whenever we hear these stories we instantly assume the parents are the worst people in the world and should be sentenced to death. More often than not (and not the case in the OP) they are just regular parents who made the worst mistake of their lives. The guy in this story forgot his child was in the car to be dropped off at daycare. The guy went to work instead and left his child in the car all day. From what I read, he was a great dad who made one terrible, stupid mistake.

Is it a crime? Yup, it is. People make mistakes and break the law. Their intent might not have been to do so but they did and have to face the consequences.

I only posted this story because it helped me to see that sometimes the situation isn't as clear cut as "he/she is a terrible person".

I agree completely, but this guy covered the windows. This was not the first time he did this. This guy has a serious problem and he risked his kids life for it. Better for both of them if they take a little break away from each other.

[stacey]

Sombody take away this guys WORLDS GREATEST GRANDPA coffee mug

[KTrain]

Originally Posted by ratech

I agree completely, but this guy covered the windows. This was not the first time he did this. This guy has a serious problem and he risked his kids life for it. Better for both of them if they take a little break away from each other.

I totally agree with you. I only posted this article here because I didn't think the Off Topic forum needed two kids left in cars threads.

[fatso]

Originally Posted by KTrain

I only posted this story because it helped me to see that sometimes the situation isn't as clear cut as "he/she is a terrible person".

I get your point. There isn't an intentionality to harm the child and so parents aren't evil per se. And I definitely see that you think penalties should be applied.

But, like, at what point is someone actually a terrible person? At what point can they be deemed 'terrible'? I mean, sure these parents aren't genocidal dictators or anything, but to do something so criminally and horrifically negligent as to leave your infant in the car as you go to work... that kind of makes you 'terrible', no? Not Hitler-terrible, but self-absorbed-waste-of-skin-should-never-have-been-allowed-to-have-kids terrible... doesn't it?

[BuzzardsWife]

sounds like something my sisters ex husband would do...did do..with older children but no diff if you ask me..i hope he never gets his kid back..i would gladly take him if noone wants him! i always think that when someone kills their child..so many people would take that baby for them instead

[KTrain]

Originally Posted by fatso

I get your point. There isn't an intentionality to harm the child and so parents aren't evil per se. And I definitely see that you think penalties should be applied.

But, like, at what point is someone actually a terrible person? At what point can they be deemed 'terrible'? I mean, sure these parents aren't genocidal dictators or anything, but to do something so criminally and horrifically negligent as to leave your infant in the car as you go to work... that kind of makes you 'terrible', no? Not Hitler-terrible, but self-absorbed-waste-of-skin-should-never-have-been-allowed-to-have-kids terrible... doesn't it?

I think intent makes someone a terrible person. There are a lot of people that shouldn't have kids. I don't think they're terrible people. They're just too stupid to handle the responsibility.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by fotze

Was he from Saskatchewan, because a co-worker from there told me that there are only three reasons for a saskatchewinian to live 1. the roughriders, 2. drinkin', 3. The casino. Any one or combination of those three things and they can lead a happy life.

He's from London Ontario, and aside from slots at the race track there isnt much else to do there either.

[Hack&Lube]

maybe the blankets on the windows were to keep the kid warm

[fatso]

Originally Posted by KTrain

I think intent makes someone a terrible person. There are a lot of people that shouldn't have kids. I don't think they're terrible people. They're just too stupid to handle the responsibility.

Maybe semantics, but what you're calling 'stupid' I'm calling 'terrible'. I definitely agree with you that there are a lot of people who have kids who shouldn't. But is our standard of parental care so low that we're calling 'forgetting to take your baby out of the car' just 'stupid'?

Your fundamental responsibility as a parent is the best interests of your child, everything else must be secondary. If you can't follow that one simple rule then opt not to have kids until you can. I don't see this kind of negligence as simply a demonstration of an individual's stupidity. I'd say it's what divides people between being basically decent or... terrible.

As an aside, that article was garbage in my opinion. What a totally manipulative piece.

[KTrain]

Maybe semantics, but what you're calling 'stupid' I'm calling 'terrible'. I definitely agree with you that there are a lot of people who have kids who shouldn't. But is our standard of parental care so low that we're calling 'forgetting to take your baby out of the car' just 'stupid'?

Your fundamental responsibility as a parent is the best interests of your child, everything else must be secondary. If you can't follow that one simple rule then opt not to have kids until you can. I don't see this kind of negligence as simply a demonstration of an individual's stupidity. I'd say it's what divides people between being basically decent or... terrible.

As an aside, that article was garbage in my opinion. What a totally manipulative piece.

The only problem is that this guy in the article was a good father who made one terrible mistake. I don't know if that puts him in the category of terrible person.

The guy in the original post is a terrible person.

I don't want to pull the "you have to have kids to understand" card but parents can get distracted. They can be forgetful. For most parents this leads to harmless situations. A few shouts from Mom to find her kid who wandered off while she wasn't looking. Forgetting to pick up your son at preschool. Forgetting to lock up your tool box only to have your kid get into it and the subsequent trip to the hospital for stitches.

His forgetfulness lead to the death of his child.

As for the article being a "totally manipulative piece". I don't know what you were expecting from an article titled, "Fatal Distraction: Forgetting a Child in the Backseat of a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime?"

[Antithesis]

But I think the point for fatso (who is articulating exactly what I'd like to express) and myself is that the very fact that either of these two people did this makes them terrible. I don't care how 'good' of a father Mr. Bakes His Child was, that one action wipes everything else away in my opinion. If you are a parent and you can't manage to successfully care for your child, then you are a failure as a parent.

All of your examples are fine, and of course I can't say there haven't been times where I looked up and there's my son on the stairs to the basement with the baby gate wide open, but those examples aren't anywhere near what happened in these two cases, either in the end result OR actually in the level of negligence. Just my opinion though.

[fatso]

Originally Posted by KTrain

The only problem is that this guy in the article was a good father who made one terrible mistake. I don't know if that puts him in the category of terrible person.

The guy in the original post is a terrible person.

I don't want to pull the "you have to have kids to understand" card but parents can get distracted. They can be forgetful. For most parents this leads to harmless situations. A few shouts from Mom to find her kid who wandered off while she wasn't looking. Forgetting to pick up your son at preschool. Forgetting to lock up your tool box only to have your kid get into it and the subsequent trip to the hospital for stitches.

His forgetfulness lead to the death of his child.

As for the article being a "totally manipulative piece". I don't know what you were expecting from an article titled, "Fatal Distraction: Forgetting a Child in the Backseat of a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime?"

1. I don't doubt that accidents happen all the time and kids get hurt. But we're not really talking about that are we? We're talking about fatal errors of, in my opinion, unfathomable magnitude. Your opinion is that he was a good parent who made an awful mistake. My opinion is that good parents don't make those kinds of mistakes. They make mistakes, sure... but not those kind.

2. Why should I expect anything from the article? And why should my expectations pre-reading have to mitigate my opinion of it post-reading? Two completely different issues...

To be honest, I thought the article would be an opinion piece, which it was. It's one thing to write an article here humanizing the problem and the 'victims', shedding light on these occurrences. But the imagery of the father so wracked with guilt over his 'mistake', and all the stuff about how 'oh this could happen to anyone' struck me as manipulative insofar as it was trying to normalize something which is wholly abnormal and in my opinion preventable. To put it another way, I thought the article did a disservice to both the actual problem and the victims. But that's neither here nor there and I don't want to get into a discussion about rhetoric and writing as that's not what we're talking about.

[Boblobla]

I heard about another dad who should be nominated for father of the year today on the radio. I believe it was in Edmonton, 2 people were arrest for racing and one of the men had a 15mo old baby in the vehicle. I will post a link if I can find one but google is failing my atm.

[4X4]

So, like, what are you trying to say? That the child baker is a terrible person? Is that what you're saying? Because I don't think that very many people will disagree. But if you're saying he's the same as the guy who deliberately locks up his kid so that he can go gamble, then you're just wrong.

And I think you're missing KTrain's point. He posted the article not to get support for the guy in the article. He posted it as a contrast to the usual news reports that we hear and immediately condemn the person.

Really, it sounds to me like you're only posting to make sure that nobody feels bad for the guy that baked his kid. And that's a little sad I think.

[Qwerty]

Another good father story from today:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29956301/?GT1=43001

updated 8:30 a.m. MT, Mon., March. 30, 2009

LAWRENCE, Mass. - Two men were being hailed as heroes by police on Monday for catching a toddler who fell 40 feet from a home's third-story window.

The child's father was caring for a newborn at the time.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Qwerty

Another good father story from today:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29956301/?GT1=43001

updated 8:30 a.m. MT, Mon., March. 30, 2009

LAWRENCE, Mass. - Two men were being hailed as heroes by police on Monday for catching a toddler who fell 40 feet from a home's third-story window.

The child's father was caring for a newborn at the time.

The 45-year-old father of two bolted across a busy street, where he met 23-year-old Alex Day, who had been inside the home at a Bible study meeting. Together, they caught the 18-month-old before she hit the ground.

Wait'll Cheese hears about this.

[fatso]

Originally Posted by 4X4

So, like, what are you trying to say? That the child baker is a terrible person? Is that what you're saying? Because I don't think that very many people will disagree. But if you're saying he's the same as the guy who deliberately locks up his kid so that he can go gamble, then you're just wrong.

And I think you're missing KTrain's point. He posted the article not to get support for the guy in the article. He posted it as a contrast to the usual news reports that we hear and immediately condemn the person.

Really, it sounds to me like you're only posting to make sure that nobody feels bad for the guy that baked his kid. And that's a little sad I think.

here comes 4X4 completely missing the point and just chomping at the bit to disagree with me.

I know that KTrain isn't trying to support the Calgarian gambler. He's been explicit on that very point. And on that we're on agreement.

And of course I'm not saying the father in the article is the same as the guy who locks up his kid. We've already distinguished them on the basis of the intent.

But as the article itself points out, these kinds of cases stretch the limits of justice and fairness and punishment. The whole point of the article, and I presume KTrain's posting of it, was to develop a discussion.

So my point, since you asked, is to ask about the negligence behind such acts. KTrain himself, as I understand him, is saying that such negligence doesn't make someone "terrible". I'm questioning that. I'd argue that it's criminal negligence and therefore terrible. Seems some people agree with me and some people don't. At what point does an error of this size define one as a parent? Some people think it doesn't... some, like me, think it does.

Now, I'm not saying stone the guy or go after him with pitchforks and torches as you seem to think. In fact, I'm not entirely sure criminal punishment is the way to go in these situations. But then, what is? Just say, 'ok, he just made a mistake and that's punishment enough?' Before you can hold someone accountable for their actions you need to first define their transgression... and I thought that's what we're doing here by having a discussion on it. I hope that's ok with you.