Old Fartbags and Mac Computers...

[PsYcNeT]

Pretty much.

Both systems have their place, I just wish the fanboys could see that.

Though I will say I'm not a fan of anything proprietary, I like to fiddle.

[PsYcNeT]

I always get a little smug feeling when I navigate around in DOS emulators or 'false' command prompts.

God I'm such a nerd I remember when the deltree command was introduced.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

I was into Apple II's in elementary, got DOS and the early windows and started delving into UNIX in junior high. I used to fix people's computers and make them run faster as a kind of a part time job in high school. I developed software on windows for 5 years. After quitting my job and deciding to go back to university I bought a Mac.

So I'm the kind of story that defies some people's claim that, "Mac's are for people who can't use PC's". I was an expert PC user, ran linux in my spare time as a kid.

Pro's for Macs
- don't get spyware as much or at all
- don't get viruses as much or at all
- faster native web browsing software (Safari >>>> IE) Safari opens instantaneously
- slicker interface and OS
- nicely designed hardware that often looks and feels better than PC counterparts
- my mac usually booted in about half the time of the average PC

I never really had crashing problems on my mac. While developing software on a PC it was not uncommon to get 10 crashes of various development software a day. Never had to reformat my Mac. Reformatting my PC's was always a task I had to do to get them to run fast again.

That said if you are used to PC the Mac OS will be counter-intuitive at first. Took me a little while to learn it but once it did it made Windows look a lot more clunky.

Call me a fanboy if you want but I've extensively used multiple OS's and given the choice I would always go Mac if I could. I have very little faith in Microsoft's decision making and software engineering. Mac made a hard decision when they switched to OSX. Microsoft refused to and always was too concerned about backwards compability which ended up compromising their decisions IMO. Apple also spends a lot more time on hardware design and interfaces which I place a lot of value in. The success of their engineering in these areas can be seen in how popular the iPod interface was and same with the iPhone.

I have at least 3 friends who converted from hardcore PC users to Macs and love it. I have another that would if he could justify it but he already has a ton of PC's.

[Boblobla]

^^^ While Safari >>>> IE, Firefox > Safari imo.

For the OP I run Vista on my PC and Laptop, other than being a bit of a memory whore I like it. I also don't have any anitvirus software. I have found that as long as you are not ######ed (ie open emails from an unknown source or use google to get your pr0n) you will be fine. I run spybot but that is it.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

I've been thinking about getting a Dell Mini 9 and installing Leopard on it to attempt iPhone development. I think that's about the cheapest way to go about it.

[PsYcNeT]

As I've told all the Mac nerds who pressure me into buying one:

Until Apple allows me to complete the trifecta of things that make computers awesome, I will not buy one.

a) overclocking

b) mix n match parts

c) play games at peak efficiency

But as soon as they do, I totally will

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

As I've told all the Mac nerds who pressure me into buying one:

Until Apple allows me to complete the trifecta of things that make computers awesome, I will not buy one.

a) view porn

b) view more porn

c) view even more porn

But as soon as they do, I totally will

I fixed it for you. And I think you can do all that stuff on a Mac.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Boblobla

^^^ While Safari >>>> IE, Firefox > Safari imo.

For the OP I run Vista on my PC and Laptop, other than being a bit of a memory whore I like it. I also don't have any anitvirus software. I have found that as long as you are not ######ed (ie open emails from an unknown source or use google to get your pr0n) you will be fine. I run spybot but that is it.

Actually, Vista uses a new memory model so it is tougher to judge it vs XP.

In XP, unless a program was in use it would page it off to the page file (on your hard drive), so there would be more free memory available if you needed it.

In Vista they decided that memory is cheaper than it used to be and people have way more of it, so instead of paging it at the first opportunity they keep it in memory so when you switch apps it can respond without needing to read back off your hard drive.

So while you are right that Vista uses a lot of memory, it does so for a very good reason. (unless you are referring to the memory requirements for running Aero, in which case yeah, it is a pig, but is can sure be purrty).

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Clarkey

I bought a Dell with Vista a year ago because I couldn't justify spending 50-100% more to get a Mac. I've had to use the rescue disk about 5 or 6 times to recover the operating system. This is scary considering the first 4 times I had all my pictures on there were no backup.

My pops is looking for a new computer, money is no object for him. I've told him to get a Mac but he is dead set against it. He used a Mac in 98 and did not like it, plus he heard about the incompatibility, which I assume is now a moot point. How do I sell him on it?

About your Dell, one of two things is happening:
1) A hardware defect that is seriously messing things up and you're blaming it on the OS. This can happen to any computer from any brand running any operating system. Contact Dell if that is the case.
2) User error. This is probably more likely. Too many people have no idea what they're doing on the computer and blame the computer because that's easier. If that's the case, I'd think twice about being so sure of your recommendation and forcing something against your dad's will.

Your dad using something that he's comfortable with is far far more important than him using something you personally perceive as 'better'

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

I fixed it for you. And I think you can do all that stuff on a Mac.

Oh the hilarity

But no, Mac's are un-overclockable. I'm not sure if there are even after-markets coolers that fit on Macs (unless you have some really good rubberbands). They do allow you to buy 3rd party parts, but they have to be off the compatibility list. And finally, gaming at peak efficiency does not exist on a Mac. They do run games far better than they used to, but theres no SLI, and they are still slower in comparison.

[FanIn80]

I love how even threads asking "How do I get someone to by a Mac?" are filled with PC users, who (feeling threatened by something) feel the need to spout off about tired old cliches that weren't even true 10 years ago, never mind today.

Basically, there are two types of people in this world: those who get it, and those who still use PCs.

[llama64]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Oh the hilarity

But no, Mac's are un-overclockable. I'm not sure if there are even after-markets coolers that fit on Macs (unless you have some really good rubberbands). They do allow you to buy 3rd party parts, but they have to be off the compatibility list. And finally, gaming at peak efficiency does not exist on a Mac. They do run games far better than they used to, but theres no SLI, and they are still slower in comparison.

If you overclock things, you're most likely a gamer. If you're a gamer, you don't use a Mac. Don't be blasting apples when you really want an orange. That's like saying a screw-driver is a poor hammer. (should I put another metaphor here?)

That said, take a look at a top of the line Mac Pro workstation. It's pretty much got everything you said Apple's don't. Course, it's not a consumer machine with all that horsepower in it, but you can overclock the crap out of it, and enable SLI for Windows Applications (afaik it's not enabled in OS X).

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I love how even threads asking "How do I get someone to by a Mac?" are filled with naive little PC users, who (feeling threatened by something) feel the need to spout off about tired old cliches that weren't even true 10 years ago, never mind today.

There are two types of people in this world: those who get it, and those who still use PCs.

Hey now, as I mentioned about 10 posts up, there are places for both.

Macs are phenomenal processing machines, and eat all applications for breakfast.

They're just not flexible and don't play games as well...

Why is stating that a crime?

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Actually, Vista uses a new memory model so it is tougher to judge it vs XP.

In XP, unless a program was in use it would page it off to the page file (on your hard drive), so there would be more free memory available if you needed it.

In Vista they decided that memory is cheaper than it used to be and people have way more of it, so instead of paging it at the first opportunity they keep it in memory so when you switch apps it can respond without needing to read back off your hard drive.

So while you are right that Vista uses a lot of memory, it does so for a very good reason. (unless you are referring to the memory requirements for running Aero, in which case yeah, it is a pig, but is can sure be purrty).

I dont profess to have much of a clue about this stuff but I know that Vista idles at 30%ish of my memory usage and I have 4gigs. My keyboard tells me that.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Boblobla

I dont profess to have much of a clue about this stuff but I know that Vista idles at 30%ish of my memory usage and I have 4gigs. My keyboard tells me that.

Then buy 4 more! If it's only DDR2 (as most are) 4 gigs is like, 80 bucks.

Then it's only 15%!

(Actually, that's a lie. Vista would just use a larger portion allocated from your RAM b/c more is available)

[llama64]

Awesome article about Vista memory usage: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000688.html

Basically all it does is cache disk files based on what it thinks will be called from the disk next. The process is called SuperFetch and it boosts memory performance quite a bit over XP and other generations of Windows. But it can hurt high performance gaming apps too. Catch 22.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Oh the hilarity

But no, Mac's are un-overclockable. I'm not sure if there are even after-markets coolers that fit on Macs (unless you have some really good rubberbands). They do allow you to buy 3rd party parts, but they have to be off the compatibility list. And finally, gaming at peak efficiency does not exist on a Mac. They do run games far better than they used to, but theres no SLI, and they are still slower in comparison.

They are definitely over-clockable, there are software utils out there to do it. You won't have room inside anything other than a Pro to do any cooling mods though, I guess.

Overclocking these days is mostly a waste of time anyways. You're looking at maybe a 10-15% real-world gain. If you are a hobbiest and enjoy it though, I agree the Mac would not be a first choice.

It's not Apple's target demographic though, and there is nothing wrong with that. Apple has a very clear vision of who they produce machines for, and overclockers aren't it.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by sclitheroe

They are definitely over-clockable, there are software utils out there to do it. You won't have room inside anything other than a Pro to do any cooling mods though, I guess.

Overclocking these days is mostly a waste of time anyways. You're looking at maybe a 10-15% real-world gain. If you are a hobbiest and enjoy it though, I agree the Mac would not be a first choice.

It's not Apple's target demographic though, and there is nothing wrong with that. Apple has a very clear vision of who they produce machines for, and overclockers aren't it.

True that.

OT
However, to say overclocking is a waste of time is grossly misstated.

My setup (seen in the post your builds thread) benches ~14,000 3dmarks in 3dmark06 (yes I know it's a synthetic benchmark, lets not get into that). After I jack my CPU up to 4 GHz or so (or higher if I'm feeling frisky) and kick the SLI into high gear, and overvolt the ram, northbridge, CPU and PCI-E controller, I can get between 20,000-21,000 3dmarks.

This is about a 30-35% increase, which is staggering.

That's not even to mention how well you can do with proper RAM timing and watercooling.

[Clarkey]

Originally Posted by Russic

That's funny, I'm anti-pc because guys who use them make sweeping generalizations all the time.

There's only 2 types of people in the world, those who arbitrarily divide people into groups and those who don't.

[Clarkey]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Tell him to get a PC from a company that sucks less than Dell...

...so anything that's not HP or Dell should be fine.

What is a good brand then?

I'm kind of confused now but I think this thread now has me leaning towards recommending ol' pops get a PC.