Do Nice Guys finish last?

[octothorp]

I've been out of the dating pool for a while, but here are my two cents. I don't think it's that nice guys finish last, it's that 'niceness' just isn't a major factor in the decision-making for most women (or for most guys, for that matter). If you're hanging your hat on the fact that you're nice, you probably just don't have a lot going for you in general. Be interesting but not pretentious, be assertive not aggressive, be confident but not cocky. In addition to those general rules, every woman has her own things that work or don't work for her, and if you don't match those things, she's just not going to be into you, and it's not her fault that she's not.

[Phaneuf3]

I know I've posted this before but its the best way to explain the "nice guy" situation. Too often they are too afraid of getting hurt or making things awkward so they don't just go for it and stand up for themselves and so they end up in the friend zone.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by czure32

were making the same point
you say stand up for yourself and dont let your girlfriend walk all over you, and I say be a nice guy but push back/assert yourself every once in a while
If youre a nice guy to the extent where you just go along with everything she wants and dont have an opinion of your own is where you become a door mat. But no being a nice guy doesnt automatically make you a door mat, I guess I wasnt clear enough in my assertion

Im with Glen Foster (that canadian guy) on this..."trying to get the bad boy thing down, because women are attracted to the bad boy...well women might be attracted to the bad boy initially, but they dont stay with the bad boy....so theres a double benefit"

Yeah, I figured as much. Was essentially just quoting the for the first part. Not directly speaking to you. Sorry for the confusion.

[troutman]

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/...s-1421183.html

That's because scientists have discovered that women are, in fact, naturally attracted to the 'bad guys', but men actually like their women to be kind and faithful.

Apparently, we like nothing better than to bag a deceitful, nasty, self-obsessed narcissist. And they like nothing better than using those traits to get us in the sack.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/belisa..._b_108495.html

So what do women see in them? Entertaining, charming--at least initially--sexually assertive, not demanding, cocky, thrill seeking, and impulsive in a way we can enjoy vicariously (and temporarily). They leave in the morning and we are not heartbroken, quite possibly relieved at not having to attend an excruciatingly boring work-barbeque or to contend with an upright toilet top. Tell me you think Kate Moss is surprised at rocker Pete Doherty's behavior. Pamela shocked at Tommy Lee's? Irritated, sure, but surprised? Nah.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...hub=TopStories

When it comes to bad boys, good girls just don't stand a chance.

According to research coming out of New Mexico University, men who are narcissistic, manipulative and non-empathetic are more likely than the nice guy-next-door to have frequent sex with multiple partners.

http://mssinglemama.com/2008/08/15/the-bad-boy-complex/

“OMG - the bad boy complex! Do you know HOW many women are absolutely wrecked by this same thing? I know I suffered from it for many years (and now consider myself in remission!).

You know what I think it is? Its all about attraction. We say we WANT the nice guy, but we are ATTRACTED to the bad boy. It like its evolution-based. Survival of the fittest, you know? the bad boy actually represents what we want our genetics to BE. He is the “alpha male”, the strong one, the survivor and the winner. The “nice guy” - who we want mentally, is not necessarily the strongest.”

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by octothorp

I've been out of the dating pool for a while, but here are my two cents. I don't think it's that nice guys finish last, it's that 'niceness' just isn't a major factor in the decision-making for most women (or for most guys, for that matter). If you're hanging your hat on the fact that you're nice, you probably just don't have a lot going for you in general. Be interesting but not pretentious, be assertive not aggressive, be confident but not cocky. In addition to those general rules, every woman has her own things that work or don't work for her, and if you don't match those things, she's just not going to be into you, and it's not her fault that she's not.

here, here

[Jetsfan]

To most western women NICE=BORING BAD BOY=EXCITING

This is why Rhianna is still with her bad boy who beat her up before the Grammys.

These links are for boards that talk about this subject.

http://happybachelor.proboards.com/index.cgi

http://dontgetmarried.proboards75.com/

[CubicleGeek]

Nope. I'm a prick and I have faced my fair share of rejection too.

[Caged Great]

Nice guys finish third behind a-holes and PR's

Short guys finish last.

It has been proven.

[enthused]

Originally Posted by octothorp

I've been out of the dating pool for a while, but here are my two cents. I don't think it's that nice guys finish last, it's that 'niceness' just isn't a major factor in the decision-making for most women (or for most guys, for that matter). If you're hanging your hat on the fact that you're nice, you probably just don't have a lot going for you in general. Be interesting but not pretentious, be assertive not aggressive, be confident but not cocky. In addition to those general rules, every woman has her own things that work or don't work for her, and if you don't match those things, she's just not going to be into you, and it's not her fault that she's not.

I'd say that's pretty bang on.

If all you've got going for you is that you're "really nice", you probably will finish last. You need to have a bit more substance, and be able to bring something else to the table other than just being "really nice". Being nice is certainly a good quality to have, don't get me wrong, but it should accompany a few others.

I can't speak for all girls, but personally I really like when guys are passionate about something. It doesn't matter if its the nerdiest thing in the world that they're passionate about, but just the fact that there is something that they are really into, whether it be a hobby, a sport, or even a message board... :| I also think that confidence is key. Be sure of yourself, and who you are. Even if some girls aren't into the "real" you... there will be other girls who are.

Oh yeah, another thing about nice guys... they're too "available". As much as a girl wants a guy to always be there when she wants him, we also like a bit of a challenge too. Don't be needier than she is. Thats weird.

[CrusaderPi]

Originally Posted by octothorp

I've been out of the dating pool for a while, but here are my two cents. I don't think it's that nice guys finish last, it's that 'niceness' just isn't a major factor in the decision-making for most women (or for most guys, for that matter). If you're hanging your hat on the fact that you're nice, you probably just don't have a lot going for you in general. Be interesting but not pretentious, be assertive not aggressive, be confident but not cocky. In addition to those general rules, every woman has her own things that work or don't work for her, and if you don't match those things, she's just not going to be into you, and it's not her fault that she's not.

I don't think nice guys hang their hats on the fact we are nice. I can be interesting, confident, and assertive. The problem is being the 'nice guy' is my base programming. Being the 'other way' or the way women like, doesn't come naturally to me, or us. Truthfully being nice is a pain.

So in conclusion, nice guys don't finish last, we just finish noticeably further down on the curve. But the friend zone can be fun! sigh

[troutman]

Who has more success with women? Motley Crue or the Barenaked Ladies?

[Coach]

As a guy who had been a victim of the "friend zone" more than a few times before I found my GF of 2 1/2 years, I realized after I let a few slip through my grasp that I was always blaming the situation on this so called "nice guys finish last" phenomenon, or the "girls like pricks" paradox. I realized that it was me who was the issue. I am still what I think is a very nice person. I was the guy who would pick you up anywhere at anytime if you needed help, and will listen to you whine and moan about the latest guy who f***ed and chucked you. And in many ways I still am that guy, but at one point i just decided for myself that I didnt want the games and didnt want the drama. So for the most part, unless it had something to do with me, I wasnt interested in youre problems anymore and when confronted with youre latest problem about another guys conquest i would give a simple "I told you so" and move on. I think this improved myself and gave me more self confidence because I wasnt caught up in everyone elses mess all the time. So no nice guys DO NOT finish last, you just have to learn to distance yourself a bit from other peoples problems

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Short guys finish last.

I hear ya. The other day I saw a dude in his 20's who was not only short, but also balding. I'm by no means a catch in the looks dept, but the first thing that came to my mind was "thank god I'm not that guy. how does he even stand a chance?".

I might not be pretty, I might not be rich, I might not have great intelligence.....but thank god I'm not 5'4 and have all my hair. If you are, you better have one mean-ass bank account.

[pope04]

Originally Posted by troutman

Who has more success with women? Motley Crue or the Barenaked Ladies?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJrSyFpK3iQ

[Schultzie]

Originally Posted by troutman

Who has more success with women? Motley Crue or the Barenaked Ladies?

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/b...h-cocaine.aspx

[pope04]

Originally Posted by Schultzie

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/b...h-cocaine.aspx

...we were under the impression that, if he had a million dollars, the money would be spent on K-Cars and Kraft dinner rather than a big pile of blow...

[Russic]

Originally Posted by octothorp

I've been out of the dating pool for a while, but here are my two cents. I don't think it's that nice guys finish last, it's that 'niceness' just isn't a major factor in the decision-making for most women (or for most guys, for that matter). If you're hanging your hat on the fact that you're nice, you probably just don't have a lot going for you in general. Be interesting but not pretentious, be assertive not aggressive, be confident but not cocky. In addition to those general rules, every woman has her own things that work or don't work for her, and if you don't match those things, she's just not going to be into you, and it's not her fault that she's not.

I think this hits the nail on the head. I was the "nice guy" for many years and couldn't figure out why it wasn't working for me. It seemed as if every woman on the planet was saying "all I want is a nice guy", but that clearly wasn't the case.

One day I got screwed over good and hard. Taken advantage of in a rough way. I decided to stick up for myself and grow a pair. I didn't stop being a nice guy, I just projected my other traits in addition to it.

I also adopted what I like to call the "Peter Gibbons from Office Space" approach to dating. You know that scene where he walks up to Jennifer Aniston and says something along the lines of "I'd like to have lunch with you. I'm going to grab a table next door and if you'd like to join me great, and if not, that's fine too". For me I found that kind of assertiveness and confidence far more effective at getting the foot in the door. It even helped me overcome the evolutionary disadvantage of being short!

Being a nice guy certainly helped, but I certainly wouldn't be in the phenomenal situation I'm in now without a total attitude reversal.

Remember gentleman: Be David Caruso from Jade

[bigtmac19]

Originally Posted by Dion

I've been told a number of things by my friends......

- I'm the man with the gentle soul.

- Have a heart that extends for miles.

- A very kind, thoughtful and generous person.

The qualities i have are clearly not wanted by the female gender

Sooooooo yes nice guys do finish last.

I don't think that's true, you're just not meeting the right kind of women apparently.

[Sly]

I have learned that being too "nice" is considered "creepy" towards stuck-up girls.

[CaptainCrunch]

I've found that a roofiecolata gets around the whole nice guy syndrome.

That and being a zany hobo stabbing sob