Update on Transit Cop - 13 Hours in jail for not having Canadian ID

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

I'm sure that's what it is. In the middle of a financial mess and lower tax revenues, the police and transit cops all of a sudden decided to get militant and enforce the law to the letter because out of no where they started to get a rediculous amount of complaints about nitpiky things like dangerous motorists speeding through at 40 KPH on Sunday morning at 8:30 sharp on a cold winter day. Call me cynical, but they're out fishing for cash.

When a drunk guy backed into my parked car in my condo complex a month ago we called the police and they arrested them. When they came back for our witness statements they were pleased because they issued him over $10,000 in tickets and it meant much less work for them that week. Gives me the impression that the marching orders are based in part by revenue generation. Now that money's tight I wouldn't be surprised of an up-tick of oppression.

I guess you have made a judgement based on your observations.

I can say that yes, people complain. Police respond. That's how it works. Cops don't give a crap how much money they 'earn' the province/city. Are they expected to write tickets? Yes. Traffic enforcement is part of their regular duties.

The police were pleased because they like writing sh&t bags tickets. It causes a bad guy much more grief then a petty criminal charge. No other reason. Your suggestion to the contrary is mere opinion and based on nothing more then your own personal biases.

[Thunderball]

maybe I'm out of date, but doesn't money from traffic violations get earmarked for law enforcement? Essentially fundraising?

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

I guess you have made a judgement based on your observations.

I can say that yes, people complain. Police respond. That's how it works. Cops don't give a crap how much money they 'earn' the province/city. Are they expected to write tickets? Yes. Traffic enforcement is part of their regular duties.

The police were pleased because they like writing sh&t bags tickets. It causes a bad guy much more grief then a petty criminal charge. No other reason. Your suggestion to the contrary is mere opinion and based on nothing more then your own personal biases.

Without a doubt it's opinion. Never presented as anything else. It's not like my accusations of police policy are ever going to be press released by the city/police to provide me with a handy official link to post and be able to say "SEE I TOLD YOU SO." However what I've observed doesn't pass the sniff test. Since you're putting the burden of proof on me I can turn that on it's head and ask you to provide proof that people did in fact complain in the instances that I observed. Until you can do that your opinion is no more valid or less biased than my own.

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Without a doubt it's opinion. Never presented as anything else. It's not like my accusations of police policy are ever going to be press released by the city/police to provide me with a handy official link to post and be able to say "SEE I TOLD YOU SO." However what I've observed doesn't pass the sniff test. Since you're putting the burden of proof on me I can turn that on it's head and ask you to provide proof that people did in fact complain in the instances that I observed. Until you can do that your opinion is no more valid or less biased than my own.

I wasn't asking you for any proof. Only to try and present another point of view.

Fact remains, I don't tell my doctor how to 'doctor'. I don't judge the thing he does as being anything more then trying to promote my health for my benefit. Why isn't that people do it with cops. With little or no background knowledge of policing- training, policies, etc., people judge, criticize and generally ize the professional like no other. This board is getting really bad for it.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

If she made a scene and was uncooperative, perhaps then it is justified...Then again, doing that in Canada can get you tasered to death.

No breaking the law and disobeying the police can get you tasered to death.

Hard to believe her story as it really sounds like there are way too many details that are unreal, but you obviously know her better and have no reason to think she is lying.

My question would be if it is possible that she did not understand what was happening and therefore there was a lot more involved than her being black.

As much as the people who hate the police and think Calgary is the bastion of all things racist would love to believe the story it just makes 0 sense at all with the details provided.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by moon

Hard to believe her story as it really sounds like there are way too many details that are unreal, but you obviously know her better and have no reason to think she is lying.

I too have trouble believing her story. Just doesn't seem right.

Also H&L you mentioned earlier that she had issues with Calgary transit over a ticket she had lost and was now refusing to buy anymore tickets for transport. Comes across to me as being a bit hotheaded, irrational and confrontational. She also came across in your first thread as being unable to accept any responsibility for her actions (lost tickets) and holding a needless grudge when she was totally at fault.

Is it possible do you think that she might have been abusive towards the cops?

[Rifleman]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

The police wonder why no one wants to give them tips about legitimate crimes. Chances are if many common law abiding people end up getting tickets for nitpicking type things they will stop viewing policemen as being on their side and be much less willing to help them out.

There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.
- Ayn Rand ; Atlas Shrugged

[FlamesKickAss]

i agree something doesnt add up. I didnt follow the other thread that closely but didnt see recieve a ticket for not having her ticket? if that wasnt paid there is a warrant out, I learned that a few years ago while on a police ride along, they took a guy that was being a ###### downtown because he had a transit fine outstanding, only took him down though because of his attitude.

so she was probably being a bee with an itch towards them and took her in.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

Why isn't that people do it with cops. With little or no background knowledge of policing- training, policies, etc., people judge, criticize and generally ize the professional like no other. This board is getting really bad for it.

Police officers are public employees with guns and the mandate to fine, arrest and incarcerate citizens. That's a lot of trust and responsibility.

Is it wrong to question their actions or motives when we suspect they might have done something to betray that trust?

I don't know the real story that started this specific thread, but I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that a transit cop might have been wrong, or that some sort of personal bias might have motivated him to put a jaywalker in the klink for 13 hours.

What kind of training do these people have?

Like I mentioned in a previous thread, I saw a crew of transit cops "at work" last weekend and it was like something out of a sit-com.

[fokakya]

That's just plain untrue. To be charged with an offense is to be accused by the law enforcement officer of committing said offense. She could very easily have been charged with obstruction if that's what the officer chose to accuse her of. Legally, it is very possible. What is not legally possible (at least in theory, not so much in practice) is to be convicted of a crime you did not commit. That's where the courts and the burden of proof come in.

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

Obstruction is the outright refusal to identify yourself or providing a fictitious name. One could not be charged with obstruction for providing some source of identification provided that id was indeed them. Legally, it's not possible. Thus there is much more to this story that she is not telling you.

[driveway]

If her story is true, I hope that Transit cop suffers from but survives a serious, painful illness. Like cholera.

[Titan]

Her story seems unlikely but unforturnately, not un-plausible. If true she may have a case for wrongful arrest. If nothing else I hope she makes complaint and pursues it. Citizen complaints are actually taken seriously, particularly if they are made by counsel on her behalf.

If she is serious she should also contact her Alderman. I know that once and Alderman is involved, all else stops until the alderman is satisfied.

A comment on the cops, they are there to do a chitty job and everyone wants a break. How about not speeding in playground zones? How is the cop the ######? Why do you get to decide which laws to follow and when? I don't want to be the holier than thou guy, too late I guess, and I also believe that you are to be considered innocent until proven guilty and should go to court if you think you have a case but, in the end, you know if you did it or not. If you did, don't blame the cop, take responsibility.

An example is the case in millarville that some d-bag passed a school bus with blinking lights and killed a kid. Should that guy be given a warning? This is the worst case scenario but I think we can all imagine someone getting a ticket in a non-accident scenario and then coming on CP to complain the cop was a pr!ck. Bull

Finally, I would like to hear from an actual CPS person about the issue of tickets and revenue generation. What is the actual story?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Bagor

I too have trouble believing her story. Just doesn't seem right.

Also H&L you mentioned earlier that she had issues with Calgary transit over a ticket she had lost and was now refusing to buy anymore tickets for transport. Comes across to me as being a bit hotheaded, irrational and confrontational. She also came across in your first thread as being unable to accept any responsibility for her actions (lost tickets) and holding a needless grudge when she was totally at fault.

Is it possible do you think that she might have been abusive towards the cops?

This is pretty close to my thoughts as well. If she already had an irrational grudge against Calgary Transit/transit cops, and seems to have an issue taking responsibility, it seems quite plausable that she helped to escelate things.

Transit cops do not have a sense of humour, so if she did so, then I can easily see the cop hauling her away in a damn hurry. This, of course, does not mean her story about the cop's attitude towards her is necessarily wrong. I would, however, really like to know what she means by "acting really bigoted toward her." (and I realize that part of the story will never get to us - especially given this is likely to go before lawyers and the courts) Based on the original thread, I would immediately suspect that she is just making assumptions that the cop was a bigot simply because he nailed a black woman for jaywalking. If her story is accurate in that regard, however, then the cop deserves to be fired regardless of anything she may have done to escelate things.

[Rerun]

I doubt that we have the whole truth here.
I'm not saying she's lying, but I do think she may be exagerating certain parts of her story, and I do suspect she's leaving out significant parts of the whole truth.
Something just doesn't seem kosher here.

I mean... why couldn't her boss get her released on bail... what is it that she's not telling us that the cops know and now her boss knows. Why did it take intervention by the American consulate in order to get her released? Its not like Canada is some third world country where you can hold someone on trumped up charges and it takes government intervention to sort things out.

Nope.... something smells here in Denmark.

[BOSSY]

Some pretty big assumptions being made and one side of the story being told here (one that I'd say is pretty biased - rightly or wrongly)... Not saying it didn't happen as brought forward - just that I'd be willing to bet there is much more to it.

[gottabekd]

Does one have to provide ID upon request? I was under then impression one just had to give their name and address.

If a transit cop or real cop asks to see "ID" on the street, I'd reply "No thanks." The only ID I carry around is my driver's license, and if I'm not operating a motor vehicle, there is no reason for me to present my driver's license.

I fear the day when everyone has to carry around identification in their own country.

[The Ditch]

If a real cop asks you for ID and you say "No thanks" I guarantee he is going to make your day miserable.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by The Ditch

If a real cop asks you for ID and you say "No thanks" I guarantee he is going to make your day miserable.

Yup, he's going to take a DNA sample from the back of your chest cavity.

[malcolmk14]

Maybe she's a secret agent and that's why she needed government intervention.

Or maybe she just missed a day of work and made up this elaborate story so that she didn't get in trouble for wanting to shop for a day instead.

[Titan]

From the Highway Traffic Act

165 Any person crossing or walking on a highway in a manner
contrary to this Act or any municipal bylaw regulating pedestrian
traffic shall, on request, give that person's name and address to any
peace officer who so requests.
RSA 1980 cH-7 s165

So the transit cop is ok to ask her name and address but apparently he can't ask for actual identification. Have not looked at case law or other leg. yet.